407. Memorandum of Telephone Conversation Between Secretary of State Rusk and Secretary-General Thant1
TELEPHONE CALL OF U THANT
Sec said he called to express to him our deep concern over any posture on the part of the UN that they would not be willing to talk to Tshombe under any circumstances here in this present situation.2 It seems the UN in the very nature of its organization has to be in a position to talk to anyone involved in disputes or threats to the peace and Sec does not understand how the UN could be in the position of not talking to people.
Thant replied they never said they will not talk to Tshombe. If Tshombe would make a statement that he has renounced his “scorched earth” policy and would grant freedom of movement to the UN, the UN would be willing to talk with him. Tshombe’s statement of last evening, although conciliatory, was not clear. He had asked that clarification be obtained from Tshombe which, if satisfactory, would have resulted in discussions. However, Tshombe had today, in a press conference, issued a very inflammatory statement calling for the destruction of the [Page 821] plants in Kolwezi in the event the United Nations moved on Kolwezi to assert its freedom of movement.3 As a result he had had to cancel his previous instructions and order Tshombe’s house arrest.
Sec said Tshombe’s statement of noon today was not entirely unexpected in view of the fact Bunche and others made it clear they would not talk to him. Sec said he does not know why someone can’t go to Tshombe to get the statement they want. Thant said no one wants to see him. Sec asked if that has anything to do with the great issues involved. Thant said Tshombe will go back on any piece of paper. That is the evaluation of all the UN people who have dealt with Tshombe. No one has faith in him. Thant said that his personal policy had been for the United Nations to talk to Tshombe, even though everyone else was opposed to it. He had issued his instructions to this effect at 10:30; however, after Tshombe made his statement at 12:00, he had had to cancel his previous statement and arrest Tshombe. Everyone (apparently including himself) agreed that this was the best policy. He had made it very clear to the British and Belgians that Tshombe had been arrested in order to protect Union Miniere property. As long as Tshombe was in custody, he thought it much less likely that the property would be destroyed.
Sec said he supposes Thant takes it into account that the press release and action could lead to the demolition of everything. Thant said he will ask Tshombe, if he is under detention tomorrow, to make a public statement asking his people not to do this—these installations must remain untouched.
Sec asked if Thant is certain these factors that are operating locally in the Congo don’t turn heavily on people whose personal feelings have become involved. Thant said that this is certainly not his own personal motivation, that he has consistently been in favor of dealing with Tshombe; however, he admitted that this was the mood of the UN people in the Congo. They did not want to see or negotiate with Tshombe in any way. Thant said the chief UN motivation was to prevent further destruction of property. Sec does not understand why if all this is so important it was not worth 30 minutes of talk with Tshombe.
Thant said that Tshombe has not yet renounced his “scorched earth” policy; in fact, some bridges were blown up yesterday. Sec said he is sure that did not come as a surprise.
Sec said he is sure Thant is doing his duty as he sees it under a difficult situation but Sec does not know whether we can follow him down [Page 822] this trail or not because we feel it important that the door be kept open by the UN to solve problems without destruction and bloodshed. Sec does not think door has been left open even for him to surrender. Thant said he greatly regretted that we were not in agreement with the actions he had taken; however, he felt that they were the best under the circumstances. Sec repeated this last. Said he hoped our paths do not diverge but if they do, he wants Thant to know there is nothing personal about it.
- Source: Department of State, Rusk Files: Lot 72 D 192, Telephone Calls. No classification marking. Drafted by McGhee based on attached notes by Bernau. Secretary Rusk was in Washington; Secretary-General Thant was in New York.↩
- At a meeting with Thant that afternoon, Plimpton had urged that the United Nations open a dialog with Tshombe and request his renunciation of the scorched earth policy and his assistance in entering Kolwezi. (Telegram 2668 from USUN, January 9; ibid., Central Files, 770G.00/1–963)↩
- Telegram 1169 from Elisabethville, January 9, reported that, at a press conference that day, Tshombe had declared that the Katangan government had made a firm decision to execute the scorched earth policy if the U.N. forces advanced toward Kolwezi but that U.N. freedom of action was a “question which can be negotiated on.” (Ibid.)↩