329. Memorandum of Conversation0
SUBJECT
- Portuguese Overseas Policy
PARTICIPANTS
-
United States
- The Secretary
- Ambassador Elbrick
- Assistant Secretary Kohler
- Assistant Secretary Williams
- Dep. Assistant Secretary Tyler
- Mr. L. Dean Brown, WE
-
Portugal
- Mr. Franco Nogueira, Portuguese Foreign Minister1
- Ambassador Pereira, Portuguese Embassy
The Secretary opened the luncheon discussion by reassuring the Foreign Minister that the U.S. is not conducting any secret discussions [Page 905] with the Germans, French and British here in Washington of which the other allies are not fully informed. Now that a German Government has been formed, however, we may be able to move forward.
The Secretary asked Mr. Nogueira about his impression of the U.N. The Foreign Minister said that Portugal supported the U.N. as it had been constituted and was in full agreement with the Charter. Portugal had seen the U.N. grow in a different manner than expected. The new membership is largely irresponsible. The U.N. has diverted its attention from major problems which confront all nations, such as disarmament or nuclear testing, to matters which affect the national interest of individual members. Portugal cannot permit the U.N. to take actions with regard to its national interests. The Soviets, of course, pay no attention to the U.N. when it concerns itself with the Soviet Union’s national interests. Soviet influence in the U.N. has grown. Once it was virtually isolated; now the Afro-Asians join it in denouncing the West.
The Secretary said we cannot consider the U.N. and the real world as two completely separate entities. It would be dangerous if the Soviets and Afro-Asians got together on an anti-Western position in the world itself.
The Foreign Minister discussed the reforms program. These are now being implemented. Municipal elections will be held in February. In Angola, Mozambique, and Portuguese Guinea about a million people will vote.
The Secretary said these elections are perhaps the most significant part of the program. If the government which exists is supported by the people—as in Puerto Rico—then the basic problem has been coped with. He thought the Portuguese had gone quite far with their program. What remains now is to tell the U.N. and the world what is being accomplished. He hoped the elections would provide a means whereby Portugal could make its case. He emphasized the fact that the U.S. is not crusading in the U.N, However, it has to deal with the situation as it has arisen there. That is why it hopes the Portuguese can take a positive position in the U.N. which will enable its allies to give support.
Reverting to the elections, the Foreign Minister said observers could come freely in to see the election process. These could be journalists or government officials, but not U.N. representatives as such. He said that it was difficult to make the Portuguese case in the U.N. As soon as the Portuguese said anything at all then they were, in a sense, “reporting” within the context of 73e. This they wanted to avoid. In addition, Portugal is automatically attacked by the Afro-Asians no matter what is said.
The Secretary said that not all Africans react in the same way to the Portuguese problem. Many are concerned by what is happening in the [Page 906] Congo and do not want to see its repetition in Angola. It would be useful for the Portuguese to talk to moderate Africans like Wachuku. A group of moderates might emerge to blunt the attack of the extremists. He then suggested we explore the possibility of a forthcoming statement by Portugal in the U.N. which could somehow avoid the implication of reporting as such.
The Foreign Minister commented that such an action might be helpful this year but the Afro-Asians would push even harder next year.
The Secretary suggested that the two meet this weekend in New York for further exploration of this possibility. He repeated his belief that Portugal had taken important steps but it must make them understood if its friends were to be able to help it. He urged the Minister to make clear what are Portugal’s long-range objectives.
The Foreign Minister referred to educational reforms. He said the plans for Angola and Guinea had been completed and those for Mozambique would be ready soon. They would be far-reaching. He hoped that the United States would be able to assist as it had said it would. The Secretary said he would be very interested in helping Portugal.
During the conversation other subjects came up briefly:
- Congo: Mr. Williams noted that we had managed to keep the Soviets out of the Congo. The Foreign Minister differed. He said that Portuguese intelligence is that the Congo is rapidly going Communist with the exception of the Katanga. He thought Gizenga is gaining strength constantly. When Mr. Williams replied that our intelligence does not bear this out and that we may have different assessments of individuals involved, it was suggested and agreed that we should exchange intelligence information on the situation in the Congo.
- Sierra Leone: The Foreign Minister said that his Government fears that the first satellite state in Africa may well be Sierra Leone. The Secretary said we had no information to this effect and asked Mr. Williams to look into the situation immediately.
- Goa: The subject of Goa came up briefly. The Secretary noted that Nehru has said nothing to us about Goa.
Ambassador Pereira remarked that he had brought it up in his press conference. He also referred to recent Indian statements that the “liberation” of Goa by military means was not ruled out.