316. Memorandum of Conversation0
PARTICIPANTS
- Secretary of Defense McNamara
- W. Averell Harriman
The conversation, lasting 45 minutes, was relaxed, covered a wide field.
Secretary McNamara expressed his desire to have me explore any aspects of our problems with the Soviet Union. I asked him what might be proposed which would help reduce our mutual military costs, a subject in which I knew Khrushchev was interested. He mentioned the ABM program, which would be increasingly expensive as time went on, with no end in sight. (14 billion for 20 cities—Alex Johnson thinks it is 20 billion for 14 cities.)
I commented that that was a saving for the future, but what about a cutback? He mentioned first ending production of nuclear material. He would approve 50% conversion of stocks without tactical reduction; if it went beyond that, he would expect reduction in the tactical field. He [Page 777] mentioned particularly equipment such as aircraft, attack submarines, and tanks. He put greater emphasis on this than on number of men in the military.
He suggested further reduction in the temp [tempo?] of competition in outer-space exploration, and proposed the possibility of cooperation.
He was prepared to liberalize trade, particularly if it is part of a bargain in which we gain.
He will fully support a comprehensive test ban treaty, although he recognizes it will be more difficult with the Senate now that an offer has been made for the three environments. He feels a test ban is of grave importance.