86. Memorandum of a Conversation, Department of State, Washington, December 2, 19591
SUBJECT
- Indian Ambassador’s Views on Indo-Pakistan Relations
PARTICIPANTS
- Ambassador Chagla of India
- Under Secretary Murphy
- Mr. Donhauser—M
- Mr. Horgan—SOA
Mr. Murphy asked Ambassador Chagla if he would care to comment on Indo-Pakistan relations, in which we had been pleased to see a number of recent evidences of improvement.
The Ambassador replied that he had never known a time when these relations had been better: the Canal Waters problem was practically settled, as were the border problems; talks were being held on the financial problems; there only remained the Kashmir problem. Even here there was hope. A strong man like Ayub could push through a settlement where a politician could not. (In an aside, he said that Indian leaders, like American, have to answer to their legislatures, but Ayub does not.) He went on to describe Ayub as having shown himself very friendly to India. In fact, this friendliness made India feel more safe “in her rear“, now that she had to turn her defenses completely around. Frankly, India’s defenses had been oriented entirely against Pakistan. For India to feel entirely safe, it would be necessary to resolve the remaining differences with Pakistan. The Ambassador said he believed there was no problem that cannot be solved between two men who are willing to tackle it with common sense and in a spirit [Page 194] of accommodation and understanding. He then wondered if the President’s trip would not be helpful in this connection:2
Mr. Murphy said that we hope to say some careful words during the trip about how fine we believe it would be if the Kashmir problem could be settled.
The Ambassador said that he believed a sympathetic word from the President here and there (i.e., in Karachi and Delhi) would be of real help.
Ambassador Chagla at this point entered a caveat concerning India’s unwillingness to enter a common defense arrangement with Pakistan, although he accepted Mr. Murphy’s suggestion that India would not object if, in the case of actual hostilities with Red China, Pakistani troops came to Indian assistance.
The Ambassador made some further comments on President Ayub. Ayub had tackled the Canal Waters problem first, because it was the most urgent problem between the two countries. Kashmir had become almost a “traditional” point of difference between the two countries, whose solution could wait, as it had done for twelve years. But the water problem was, as Ayub had said, a life-and-death matter. On the whole, the Ambassador thought Ayub had done well; he had tackled the corruption problem, and had given the country some political and economic stability.
The Ambassador closed on the note that India and Pakistan should be able to settle their differences; they were, after all, fellow-citizens up until 12 years ago, and the leadership on both sides had ties of comradeship and, in a number of cases, ties of actual blood relationship.