35. Memorandum by Secretary of State Dulles 0
MEMORANDUM OF PRIVATE AFTER-LUNCHEON CONVERSATION WITH GENERAL DE GAULLE
(In the French Language)
General de Gaulle explained his ideas as regards a new Constitution. He said that the President would be without governmental responsibility but will have authority to dissolve the Parliament and call for new elections. The government and cabinet would be such as to eliminate the ties which have bound ministers to various parliamentary party groups and which thus destroyed the unity and effective governing ability of the cabinet. He felt that there was little doubt but what the new [Page 65] Constitution would be adopted because the people generally recognized that the old Constitution was not workable and also because he expected to have the support of both Left Wing and Right Wing elements such as Mollet and Pinay.
General de Gaulle emphasized again the importance of France feeling that she was a world power. Unless the French people felt that, France would quickly degenerate. I said that I recognized that this was in the French tradition and that its preservation was in the interest of the free world and Western civilization. I said, however, that I could not but point out that a world role for France could only come about pari passu with the internal strengthening and recovery of France. It was important and a big step forward that General de Gaulle had come to power but until the phase he represented had been consolidated by constitutional amendment, fiscal stability, a settlement of the Algerian problem and the like, there persisted doubts.
General de Gaulle said that the new gold loan was going well and they felt confident that the foreign exchange situation was in hand for at least this year. I said that France was rich but that the French people had grown not to trust the government and to lend it their money. I recalled my remark to Monnet that the American people were being called on to loan their money to the French government because the French people were too thrifty and too wise to do so.1
General de Gaulle spoke of the Algerian problem. He said that his main purpose for the time being was to calm things down. He hoped that the Algerians would vote in the referendum on the new Constitution. I asked whether this Constitution would involve a change in the provisions relating to the French Union. He said that they would be altered radically and that this would be particularly valuable in the case of Black Africa. I recalled the relationship we had with the commonwealth in Puerto Rico which gave them self-government within the context of our Constitution. This gave them great advantages in the way of trade, travel and so forth with the United States. We had offered them independence but they did not want it. General de Gaulle said he was aware of this relationship and hoped that something like it might develop in relation to France’s African possessions.
He said that as far as Algeria was concerned his thought was to take one step at a time and not prejudge the future. It might be possible to establish a 10-year arrangement and decide at the end of that time what the next stage would be.
General de Gaulle said he recognized that the age of colonialism was over but that it was necessary to move slowly if there was to be [Page 66] genuine independence. I recalled Stalin’s speech of 1924 on “The National Problem” and how the Soviets’ strategy was to force rapid independence which would break ties with the West, and then to absorb them in the Communist bloc. I pointed out that we had spent 50 years preparing the Philippines for independence. I also recalled that when our own government was formed very little direct power was given to the people by popular vote. General de Gaulle interjected that premature independence meant dictatorship such as the dictatorship of Nasser.
General de Gaulle recalled his talk with President Roosevelt in Washington in 1944 when Roosevelt had pressed, he thought too hard, for the principle of independence of then-colonial areas.2
Reverting to Europe, I said that France would encounter great jealousy from Italy and Germany and that anything France could do to allay this would be helpful. I asked whether he planned to see Adenauer. He replied somewhat vaguely that he would be glad to see him if Adenauer wished this. He added that there were no problems between France and Germany. He recognized that there was a great deal of jealousy in Italy. I said that I thought that Fanfani was a very good man. General de Gaulle said that he did not know him personally, but had heard good of him.
General de Gaulle said that he thought that the continental nations had gone too far in creating supranational institutions. He said that these did not have any popular support but tended to thwart national aspirations. He did not know whether they would last. He would be loyal to treaties that had been made but felt that the right way was to build on the basis of nations and cooperation between nations but not to get into the supranational field.
He remarked that Macmillan had been much excited about the Common Market and the Free Trade Area. He said “probably some compromise will be found. We do not want to have an economic war with Britain.”
I said I felt the United States might have an interest in a Free Trade Area. General de Gaulle asked whether we had made any demands in this connection. I said that I thought none had been formulated to date.
[1 paragraph (7–1/2 lines of source text) not declassified]
General de Gaulle, concluding, asked me to express his warmest regards to President Eisenhower. He said he had good relations during difficult days and that General Eisenhower had made them less difficult. He asked whether the President was greatly overworked. I misinterpreted this remark to indicate that he was perhaps thinking of a date [Page 67] for coming to Washington and said I thought that his schedule was pretty crowded until September. General de Gaulle said that he was not now thinking of a trip to the United States. He had too much to do. His inquiry related only to General Eisenhower’s health and his hope that he was not overworked.
I expressed in conclusion my own great esteem for General de Gaulle and my opinion that he was playing a vital role and that we all wished him success. Earlier as we were leaving the luncheon table, General de Gaulle had remarked to me that whereas up to four or five years ago he had wanted to be Head of Government, he had in recent years lost that ambition and now was serving only out of a sense of duty.
- Source: Department of State, Central Files, 611.51/7–558. Secret. Drafted by Dulles. The copy of this memorandum in the Eisenhower Library, Whitman File, International File bears the President’s initials.↩
- Not further identified.↩
- de Gaulle, who visited Washington for talks with U.S. officials July 6–10, 1944, met with President Roosevelt on July 6, 7, and 8.↩
- Printed from a copy that bears this typed signature.↩