213. Memorandum of Conference with the President1
- Dr. Kistiakowsky
- General Goodpaster
The President said he had had a question on nuclear weapons testing at his press conference. He had brought out that the problem of atmospheric testing can apparently be managed. The Soviets now seem to be ready to have serious technical discussions concerning inspection of underground testing. Dr. Kistiakowsky said that the problem is extremely difficult. The McRae report brings out that there is no immediate need for the resumption of testing, but that over the longer term testing will give valuable progress, the nature of which cannot be estimated now. In his judgment the questions regarding suspension of testing are now a matter of political judgment rather than technical. Although the safety test question had been emphasized a great deal, in actual fact it is not of great importance since the tests may be conducted with zero or essentially zero yield. In addition, there will always be some possibility of nuclear accident, and the problem recently raised is probably not of tremendous importance.
After an explanation of possibilities for nuclear accident by Dr. Kistiakowsky, the President commented that the possibility seemed to [Typeset Page 885] be greater than he had previously realized. He summed up his instructions regarding the safety tests as telling the AEC to go as far as they can without risk of a nuclear explosion. When they reach the point of risk they are to come back to him. He emphasized that they should get on with this testing and not try to get into political questions.
Dr. Kistiakowsky said the President’s Science Advisory Committee has put the greatest amount of study to date into military R & D budget. He will be taking up their findings with Dr. York and Secretary McElroy. The group will then be ready to come in and see the President.
[Facsimile Page 2]The President said he is getting the impression that disarmament is not possible in the nuclear field. Probably we must get better and better weapons of our own in that field. At the same time he thinks that our concept of defending all around the world will not work. It is not practicable and is too great a burden for us. Mr. McElroy is planning to cut 14 air squadrons and 50,000 men in the Air Force. He feels that a new conception of defense is needed involving greater reliance on the deterrent. We must be able to return a tremendous blow. Short of that, a few mobile forces and a few carriers to move out from a central reserve must be provided. He does not think we can have such a thing as a perfect defense. Dr. Kistiakowsky said that without some military concepts, his group finds it impossible to make the judgments which need to be made in the scientific field. He was happy to see that their thinking runs along the line of the President’s. The President said our great problem is that our people want to do everything, and to start programs in all directions. Dr. Kistiakowsky said that in the field of strategic attack, for example, if everything were done that is now being planned and programmed we would have a fantastic overkill capability.
Dr. Kistiakowsky next said that there is evident need for a policy statement on space activities, since there is great confusion around the country. The President asked for a draft of a statement that he might make, either at a press conference or otherwise. Dr. Kistiakowsky said he would prepare one.
Dr. Kistiakowsky referred to troubles the Titan program is having. There has been an eight-month flight delay. The program is not in good shape, and the failure is essentially managerial. The Martin Company is spread over too many projects. A group from BMD is now taking over the Denver plant, at least long enough to put it on its feet. He said there is a good chance that they will still catch up with their schedule. The President said this is most surprising to him since the Denver plant was most impressive, and that people (including me) had told him that the Titan was a better missile than the Atlas. Dr. Kistiakowsky said that [Typeset Page 886] it is. The problem is not one of design, but one of management and production.
Dr. Kistiakowsky next said that the Federal Council for Science and Technology is making some progress, putting emphasis for example on oceanography, materials research and the atmospheric [Facsimile Page 3] sciences. The Council gets agreements in principle, but little then seems to happen. There are obstacles in practice, many of them genuine, since the agencies have their own fields and laws. Progress is very slow and laborious.
The President said that if this situation is due to specific obstacles or attitudes, he will take quick action if the group will simply advise him where action is needed. If on the other hand it is just due to the nature of our enormous federal government, and its built-in bureaucracy, then all he could advise is to keep nagging. Dr. Kistiakowsky said he believes it is almost entirely the latter. He said there is, for example, no uniformity in practices regarding grants and aids to private research. Some grants include provision for construction of facilities; others prohibit this. The President said there would seem to be need for a group, perhaps under Dr. Kistiakowsky, to survey these grants before commitments are made, against such questions as whether adequate talent—both individual competence and numbers of people—exists. In many cases mediocre talent is no good at all. He could take a look at the programs at Defense, at AEC, Agriculture and Public Health Service as a start. A very exact and clear-cut check should be made as to whether talent exists, whether it will have to be robbed from other programs, whether skills are of secondary caliber, etc. Dr. Kistiakowsky mentioned in this connection that he is coming to believe that the real question regarding technical manpower is whether there is in fact a shortage. He knows of great hoarding by industries. Defense contracts in fact encourage this since they are on a straight cost basis. The President asked Dr. Kistiakowsky to give him the questions and suspicions that he has. He said he would be quite ready to get the senior officials of Defense and the AEC in to his office and ask them to explain this.
Brigadier General, USA
- Source: Possibility of suspending nuclear testing; reliance on deterrence; making choices in defense programs; problems with Titan; problems with federally-funded research. Secret. 3 pp. Eisenhower Library, Whitman File, DDE Diaries. Drafted on November 6.↩