206. Memorandum of Conference with the President1
OTHERS PRESENT
- Dr. Glennan, Dr. Dryden, Mr. Horner, General Persons, Dr. Kistiakowsky, Secretary McElroy, Secretary Gates, Dr. York, General Twining, Mr. Staats, Mr. Hagerty, Mr. McCabe, General Goodpaster
Dr. Glennan said the group had come in to discuss the transfer of ABMA to NASA. Underlying considerations were that there is not a clear military requirement for a super-booster, whereas in the field of space activities there is a need to go ahead with the development, and the program should be based on a single super-booster. At the present time there are two programs each of about $3/4 billion total. If these are put together the total cost would be between $3/4 billion and $1 billion, rather than a billion and a half. Mr. McElroy said this matter has been thoroughly discussed in Defense. The President asked whether Governor Brucker had been in these discussions. In this connection he said he had no doubt that Brucker was ready to carry on loyally once a decision was made. Mr. McElroy said that the Army is now out of the space business, and is well resigned to an alternative use of ABMA. There were two options—to turn it over to NASA or to the Air Force. The JCS have looked at the problem and have concluded that it would be better to retain the agency in the Department of Defense. The office of the Secretary of Defense, however, favors a transfer to NASA.
The President asked how ABMA would handle the Pershing missile if this change were made. Mr. McElroy said that the Army can handle the Pershing missile other than at ABMA. Mr. McElroy said there are two questions. First there was now a divided project for a super-booster, and this should be consolidated. Second, there is the question whether ABMA should go to NASA or elsewhere. On these, he thought that the big booster responsibility should be shifted to NASA and that the ABMA group should be shifted to NASA to work on it. The President said he saw no sense in Defense having a [Facsimile Page 2] super-booster project. Defense should take advantage of the NASA work. In fact, he saw no problem in this except the possibility of a morale problem at ABMA. Mr. McElroy commented on one further point. Over the years he said the U.S. has given fluctuating support to science. He acknowledged they had also given fluctuating support to defense. However, the [Typeset Page 856] Defense people thought there is better assurance of public support for a large booster project over the years if it is put in Defense than if it goes into a civilian agency. The President did not give very much weight to this consideration.
The President then commented that this shift will force us to focus on the development of a super-booster, which to him is the key to a leading position in space activities. Dr. Glennan commented that there will still be need for interim vehicles and for collateral NASA activities. He commented that if ABMA is transferred, with a $140 million budget for FY–61, he could foresee saving approximately half of this out of the consolidated activity. The President said that a caustic budget review of space activities is required. The question is one of priorities. He thought the super-booster is the key to successful competition and we should concentrate on that. He recalled his principle of attacking one enemy or one principal objective at a time. The NASA budget must go through the whole process of review. He recognized that there are of course many things—instruments, payloads, etc.—which must be brought along in order to make effective use of the booster when available.
Dr. Glennan then presented the gist of the Defense/NASA proposal on the transfer (as set out in the joint letter of himself and Mr. McElroy to the President).
The President said that this field breaks into three main elements in his view. The first is that we must get what Defense really needs in space; this is mandatory. The second is that we should make a real advance in space so that the United States does not have to be ashamed no matter what other countries do; this is where the super-booster is needed. The third is that we should have an orderly, progressive scientific program, well balanced with other scientific endeavors. He thought that these efforts should be carried out in agreement between DOD and NASA, efficiently and wisely. To this end he thought this transfer was a good one to make. He thought, however, that there is need for Defense and NASA to do a real job with ABMA and the Army in order to get them to understand the [Facsimile Page 3] reasons for the transfer, and not only accept it but support it.
Mr. McElroy said there will not be a perfect meeting of the minds. He anticipated that Congress will bring out whatever dissent exists. The President said he is more interested in good working relations between NASA and Defense. NASA can do a fine job of service to Defense, as NACA did before it. He stressed that this must be carried down and explained to the people really involved, however. He then raised the question whether the transfer should be announced at once or whether some time should be spent explaining it to the people involved. Dr. York commented that there had been so many leaks on the matter that an announcement seemed imperative.
[Typeset Page 857]Secretary Gates repeated that there would be controversy over this in the testimony given to the Congress. The President intervened at this point saying it never would have occurred to him in his military service, once a decision had been made by higher authority, to make public his personal convictions where they differed from this decision. He said he would like to see the next Quantico Conference devoted to loyalty—to the principle that when a decision is made all join in carrying it out. Mr. Gates said that many people in the military service think that there will be a requirement on the part of Defense for a super-booster and would like to keep an “in-house” capability for the production of such a booster in the Defense Department.
Dr. Glennan said he saw two problems in making an announcement—the first pertaining to the group at Huntsville and the second to the Congress. The President said that Congress will not have the courage to get into this matter if there is not too much dissension within Defense. He then outlined the kind of announcement he had in mind—stressing his admiration for the fine performance of ABMA, its tremendous accomplishments under Army aegis, and the need for bringing this talent to bear on a consolidated super-booster program. He asked for a draft announcement along these lines to be furnished to him for release later in the day at Augusta.
Brigadier General, USA
- Source: Transfer of ABMA to NASA. No classification marking. 3 pp. Eisenhower Library, Whitman File, DDE Diaries. Drafted on October 23.↩