870.411/2–2354
Memorandum of Conversation, by the Minister-Counselor at the Embassy in India ( Mills )1
Participants:
- Dr. Max Yergan, American Negro Leader
- Sheldon T. Mills, Minister-Counselor
- William L. Blue, First Secretary
- Andrew V. Corry, Minerals Attaché American Embassy, New Delhi
Early in February Mr. Minoo Masani brought Dr. Yergan to the Chancery to meet Ambassador Allen. Later that evening Ambassador Allen entertained Dr. Yergan and his white American wife at tea at his residence.
Dr. Yergan left the next day with his wife for a visit to Simla, returning on February 11. The undersigned got in touch with him on his return and invited him to come to the Chancery for a discussion.
Dr. Yergan stated that he had spent some 17 years in South Africa largely in YMCA work and had visited Africa many times since. He also had visited India a number of times, the first visit being in 1928 when he had stayed in Allahabad with Sir Motilal Nehru, the father of the Prime Minister.
The Embassy officers who spoke with Dr. Yergan were primarily interested in his views on Africa. He was of the opinion that the Mau Mau leaders in Kenya were being exploited by Communists. He said that Kenyatta, when in the United Kingdom, associated closely with fellow travelers if not with Communists. He was also of the opinion that Apa B. Pant, now relinquishing his post as Indian High Commissioner in Nairobi, was either utterly naive or very calculating in his relations with Mau Mau leaders. In any case he was very involved in local affairs and Yergan cited as an example of this his attitude towards the school run by the Kenyatta faction. Yergan told Pant that he thought it was a mistake for the government to allow this group to maintain separate schools which concentrated on politics rather than education. Pant took strong objection to Yergan’s position. A year or two ago Dr. Yergan was in Kenya and until he could “escape” was a house guest of Mr. Pant. On this occasion the latter organized a reception in his honor. It was postponed in order that Mau Mau leaders might attend, although Dr. Yergan correctly told Pant that they would not come because they disliked his views on Communists, etc.
[Page 93]Dr. Yergan is of the opinion that the Indians in East Africa hope to supplant the whites as the dominant group and that they are cultivating the blacks and trying to identify themselves with the latter party with this principal object in view. Their other objective is to prevent if possible the black majority from turning its hatred towards them. In this connection he noted that the number of Indians killed by the Mau Mau was very small. Without mentioning the recommendations which the Embassy has learned in a confidential manner have been made to the Government of India by Sardar Pannikar, until recently Indian Ambasador in Cairo, namely that India seize the opportunity of building up a new home for its surplus population in Central Africa, an Embassy officer questioned Dr. Yergan regarding Indian ambitions in this area. (The questioner had in mind that vast highland in Central Africa consisting of Northern and Southern Rhodesia and Nyasaland, as well as the highlands of Uganda and Kenya.) He stated that the Ugandas are very lightly populated and probably could be developed and sustain a much larger population. He did not think of them, however, as a great unoccupied area where Europeans or Indians could build up a great overseas outlet for population (Dr. Yergan did not refer to the Central African Federation for some reason.) With regard to West Africa, Dr. Yergan seemed to feel that both the British and the Belgians are following very enlightened policies and that African leaders increasingly are assuming positions of responsibility.
There was not much talk of South Africa. Dr. Yergan stated, however, that the English element there, which is a minority, had a much more enlightened view of race relations than did the Africans.
It was apparent from the conversation regarding India that Dr. Yergan is much under the influence of Minoo Masani. Like the latter he referred to Mr. Nehru as a semi-dictator and seemed surprised at the view of the Embassy Officers with whom he spoke, namely that Nehru is attempting to make the Parliamentary and Democratic regime of the new constitution work. Although during a visit to India a year or two ago Dr. Yergan had seen Mr. Nehru and a number of other Government of India leaders, he stated that on this visit he was purposely refraining from trying to make such contacts.
Dr. Yergan seemed to be sincere and very knowledgeable with respect to Africa. He stated quite frankly that he had been mislead by the Communists immediately after the war and that when he discovered that they were attempting to use American Negroes merely to advance their own designs, he came out in strong opposition to all Communists and fellow travelers. Dr. Yergan also stated that the United States did not have to apologize to anyone at the present time on the question of [Page 94] race relations for very significant and steady progress is being made in this field. He spoke of his sons who have been in the military service as officers and who assured him that their experience did not include any objectionable discrimination.
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The source text was transmitted as an enclosure to despatch 1326, Feb. 23, 1954, from New Delhi which read as follows:
↩“As of possible interest to the Department, there is enclosed a memorandum of conversation between Dr. Max Yergan, American Negro leader, and officers of the Embassy.”