Foreign Relations of the United States, 1952–1954, Germany and Austria, Volume VII, Part 2

762A.00/3–2053

No. 571
Memorandum of Conversation, Prepared in the Department of State¹

secret

[Washington, March 20, 1953.]

Subject:

• Berlin

Participants:

• Secretary Dulles
• Mayor Ernst Reuter, Berlin
• Dr. Hans Hirschfeld, Berlin
• Dr. Heinz L. Krekeler, Chargé d’Affaires, German Mission
• GER—Mr. James W. Riddleberger
• GEA—Mrs. Eleanor L. Dulles

General

Secretary Dulles and Mayor Reuter referred briefly to their meeting in 1948. The Secretary then asked in general terms about Mayor Reuter’s conversation with the President and referred to the President’s remarkable variety of interests.² Mayor Reuter mentioned that he had met President Eisenhower in Berlin.

Refugees

The Secretary asked Mayor Reuter for an explanation of the large increase in the number of refugees coming into Berlin. Mayor Reuter said that in his opinion the reasons were mainly economic. He stated that there had been a very great deterioration in the conditions prevailing in the East Zone, that the administration seemed to be almost without purpose and plan. He indicated that most of the refugees coming over were able-bodied citizens and good workers. He gave as his opinion that if this outflow of refugees continued for a considerable time, the Soviets would take steps to halt it. He indicated that this would be difficult to accomplish.

Secretary Dulles asked whether the Mayor thought that the measures taken in East Germany were any indication of increased militarization or military threat. The Mayor said that they were not in his opinion, that he thought there was no plan either to increase or to halt the number of refugees at the present time. He further stated that the efforts of the Soviets to collectivize the farms had led to a large scale exodus of farmers, and that many more workers from the big factories were coming out of East Germany. The Secretary asked whether there were many refugees crossing the zonal border outside Berlin, to which the Mayor replied there was merely a trickle.

The Secretary asked Mr. Riddleberger whether the Department’s interpretation of the refugee situation also led to the conclusion that the exodus was not planned. Mr. Riddleberger stated that this was the Department’s view. He referred to the dead zone at the East-West zonal border and stated that it was very difficult to cross and that the numbers were something like 70 or 80 persons as compared with the 40,000 coming through Berlin in the last few weeks. With respect to the Soviets attitude toward the refugee movement out of East Germany, Mr. Riddleberger indicated that we believed the Soviets could cut the number drastically, but that they did not wish to do so because this would probably mean dividing the city in two and preventing workers from going back and forth within the city. There were probably political reasons for reluctance to do this.

The Mayor stated that the building of a Chinese wall to keep out refugees was difficult, particularly in Berlin. He said the efforts of the Soviets to keep refugees back would probably mean disturbance to all traffic and would require very special measures.

Mr. Riddleberger stated that it must be remembered that the Germans were moving within Germany and that this was always harder to stop than the movement into a strange country.

The Mayor stated that there was a great deal of collusion between Germans. Dr. Hirschfeld said that a number of Volkspolizei had actually come over to the West recently—a dozen or so.

Mr. Dulles asked whether the refugees brought anything with them. The Mayor said “usually not”, that if they carried anything the crossing became conspicuous and dangerous. The Mayor stated that the important thing was to get the refugees out of the city into West Germany. He asserted that the Berliners would do all they could. He reported that as many as 1,750 had been flown out on a recent day. He said this constituted a big administrative task and presented a large problem not only to Berlin, but to West Germany. He assured the Secretary that everything possible would be done to accomplish what was necessary to fly the refugees out.

Employment

The Secretary asked whether the people in Berlin, including refugees, were kept well employed. The Mayor said not as well as would be hoped. More investment in Berlin is needed for this purpose.

The Secretary asked whether the Mayor had mentioned this to the President. Mayor Reuter said “no”, but that he had talked about it to Mr. Stassen.³ He stated that Mr. Stassen had said that he recognized the importance of this investment program and that allocations for this purpose would be made—that he was hopeful of receiving aid (see attached note).

United States Aid to Berlin

The Secretary said that this was very interesting, that he felt Berlin was a place where American aid could be justified. He stated that there were some places where our assistance was not really needed, and where people must help themselves. In the case of Berlin, however, he could see that it was hard for them to handle their problems alone.

Mayor Reuter replied that without American help, Berlin would have been lost, that it was impossible to stand alone without help. He added that Berlin was a point from which Western influence could radiate, and that the position in Europe was vastly different now from what it would have been if Berlin had been lost. Mayor Reuter said that the people know me as I walk through the streets, they know my voice and the voices of my colleagues. The Secretary said you are like a father to them. The Mayor said someone has to be their father.

Berlin Morale

Secretary Dulles asked about morale in Berlin. Mayor Reuter made a gesture of friendly assurance and said that this is something which calls for no discussion. The Secretary said you take it for granted. Mayor Reuter indicated there was no weakening on the part of the population. The press, he said, stressed many unimportant incidents which concerned only a few people. Actually Communist activities in Berlin are scarcely noted. The strain comes rather from the knowledge that one cannot leave the city. Only about 20% of the persons in Berlin can leave by car or plane.

The Secretary said that in view of the long continued siege of the city, it was remarkable that there was no real sense of claustrophobia, that it was remarkable that the Berliners had stood so firm. The Mayor said “we are not heroes, but even when we are not in a blockade condition we still have a firm determination.”

Dr. Krekeler interjected and said that he had not realized until his recent talks with the Mayor how important Berlin was in the present day struggle with Communism.

The Mayor said that Berlin was the means whereby the Soviets were prevented from consolidating their position in Germany. As long as Berlin is there, there was no chance of Communism dominating the East Zone. Dr. Krekeler said that what Mayor Reuter had told him in the last few days had amazed him. He felt now that Berlin was a disintegrating factor for East Germany.

The Secretary asked about the effect of Stalin’s death and Mayor Reuter indicated that he thought it would weaken the Communist position in East Germany.

The Secretary asked whether he gave any significance to the recent incidents and Mayor Reuter stated that there were further indications of his view that the Communists are very weak in East Germany.

There was a brief comment on the fact that the Chancellor is coming in ten days.⁴ Mayor Reuter said these visits must be a great strain on you. The Secretary said they are a strain, yes, but a real pleasure, and it is particularly gratifying to be able to talk to you.

The Mayor said that I am very sorry that you did not get to Berlin on your recent trip.⁵ The Secretary replied that he was sorry too, the trip was so short, only ten days. He added that he hoped to get there on his next trip to Europe.

[Attachment]

Memorandum of Conversation, by Eleanor L. Dulles⁶

secret

[Washington,] March 23, 1953.

In the interview with Mr. Stassen, Mr. Stassen stated that he wanted to talk with Mayor Reuter about two things—

1. When you talked to the President you asked him for food for refugees. Mayor Reuter said “yes”. I understand that there is surplus food which can be had without legislation. Mr. Stassen said I believe not without legislation, but I believe that arrangements could be made adding, “I assume you have in mind food that might be distributed to refugees through charitable agencies”.

Mayor Reuter said “yes”, but, in addition, the people in Berlin must know we are ready to meet any contingency. Mr. Stassen said he would look into the matter immediately.

2. The second point, said Mr. Stassen, is I have been hearing a great deal about expanding the consumer goods industries in Berlin. Is this important? The Mayor said “yes”. Mr. Stassen said a man named Sager, a Swiss, I believe, who has a good reputation had been in to see him. He is said to know how to develop new type of goods and package them for the various markets. Do you think this would be useful? the Mayor said decidedly. Mr. Stassen said he would look into the matter and if he proved to be a sound person, would write the Mayor and endeavor to send him to Berlin.

The rest of the conversation was concerned with the refugees and the relation of the investment program to the increased number of refugees.

Mayor Reuter said in his talks about the refugees that the city was doing everything it could and then added in a tired undertone—that in the long-run it was his opinion that Berlin would need outside help.

Eleanor Dulles was present at the interview with Mr. Stassen and stated that Mayor Reuter had asked Mr. Stassen whether he could expect that the investment program would be supported by the United States for 2 or 3 more years. He said that it was of great importance. Mr. Stassen had replied that United States programs are all being reviewed, that the administration must go before Congress with a budget, and that it is impossible to say what funds the budget will contain. Everything is being looked at very carefully. We are looking forward to the report of the teams that have recently gone into Germany and elsewhere.

Mr. Stassen said further that one thing that could be stated firmly was that this administration was going to look carefully at all items and study them thoroughly before making any commitment and once a commitment was made, they would follow it up with determination and it would be a commitment on which one could count.

Mayor Reuter said that he would like to feel that he could go back with a hope and Mr. Stassen said that the matter had been carefully studied by a number of groups, including Eleanor Dulles, and that all these considerations would be taken into account. The Mayor said that he was sure that there would be no fear that Mr. Stassen and the other United States officials would fail to recognize the importance of helping Berlin.

1. This conversation took place at 2:30 p.m. on Mar. 20.
2. Reuter had been scheduled to meet President Eisenhower at 12:15, but no record of their conversation has been found in Department of State files.
3. For a record of Reuter’s meeting with Stassen, which presumably took place between his meetings with the President and with Secretary Dulles, see the attachment below.
4. Regarding Chancellor Adenauer’s visit to Washington in April, see Documents 177 ff.
5. Secretary Dulles traveled to Europe Jan. 31–Feb. 8.
6. The source text bears the heading “Footnote to Memorandum of Conversation with Mayor Reuter, Berlin, March 20, 1953”.