Marshall Mission Files, Lot 54–D270
Minutes of Meeting of the Military Sub-Committee of Three, Held at the Office of the Aide to Generalissimo Chiang, February 22, 1946, 4 p.m.
| Present: | General Chang Chih Chung |
| General Chou En-lai | |
| General G. C. Marshall | |
| Also present: | General Lee |
| General Tong [Tung] | |
| General Kuo | |
| Colonel Caughey | |
| Colonel Pee | |
| Mr. Chang |
G—General Chang
C—General Chou
M—General Marshall
G: General Chang said this semester seems to have come to an end in the class.
M: I hope so. If we are ready to proceed, I think the first thing to be discussed is the question of the title of this paper.18
G: General Chang suggests that we make the title, “Basis for Reorganizing the Communist Forces into National Army of China.” With that title it will give everyone the impression we are organizing to do away with any force belonging to any single party and the National Army will be created. He thinks that will give the best impression.
C: General Chou still supports General Marshall’s original proposal for the title because that is consistent with the contents, and seems to be acceptable to both sides because it both deals with the integration [of Communist Forces?] and the integration of the armies.
G: General Chang said that after studying the title suggested by General Marshall “Basis for the Demobilization of Armies in China and for their integration into a National Force”, he would like to make a comment as to the second part, “and for their integration into a National Force”. In the past, accusations were made by the Communist side against the National side and the National side against the Communist Party, and although they are only accusations, but the National forces are now the forces of the legitimate government so if we say for their integration that means integrate the Communist troops as well as the Communist Party—that will jeopardize the status [Page 279] of the National forces, so he is trying to think that some title must be worked out without jeopardizing either side. That title entails that there is a jeopardizing of the status of the National forces.
M: I have this suggestion to make. “Basis for Military Demobilization and for the Integration of the Communist forces into the National Army.”
G: General Chang said that just for this title alone we will have to impose on you for some more consideration. He feels very uneasy about it. General Chang is willing to accept that title.
M: I don’t quite understand.
G: Just by that title alone, we have to impose on you again to enter into more consideration about that because he has an uneasy feeling about that.
C: I don’t want to elaborate on the theoretical foundation but I would like to recite a few references for adopting the present title. In the PCC, it was in the decision of the PCC, which said the nationalization of the Chinese forces would not only be the Chinese Communist forces, but also the Nationalist forces. This has been definitely stated in the PCC decision and there is no point of argument about that and it is of this decision, I think, General Chang will have no difficulty about it, because the decision was personally accepted by the Generalissimo and also by the other government representatives. So it is very clear that the nationalization of the forces not only applies to the Chinese Communist forces. Secondly, the recommendation passed by the conference of three also said that the plan should be worked out for the reorganization of the armies of China for which General Chang needs not to take the responsibility and that I have explained yesterday, so I don’t need to repeat it here. Therefore, I still concur with the proposal General Marshall made yesterday. If despite all this basis we had for reference, General Chang still finds difficulty to accept this title then I would suggest that we simply dispense with any title, because with reading through the paragraphs everybody will notice the contents of our agreement and the title is unnecessary.
G: General Chou just said he doesn’t want to elaborate any more arguments, but as a matter of fact he really started the argument. General Chang feels that the legitimate basis for this Military Sub-Committee is from the talks of last year, October 10 last year, because in that joint communiqué issued last October19 it is very clearly stipulated in Article 9 of that document that Military Sub-Committee should be set up to study and work up a plan for the reorganization of the Communist troops. The references made by General Chou are true regarding a letter sent by the Committee to the Generalissimo [Page 280] and the PCC decisions about the reorganization of the forces in this country, but they are also based on the talks of last year. Of course, in the PCC and in the letter written by the Committee of Three the members may not have—a casual wording made by them cannot be taken as the legitimate basis. The legitimate basis for this Committee is that of the discussions of last October. Although it was stipulated in the communiqué issued that only the reorganization of Communist troops will be discussed, the Government has now made a concession that we are willing to bring about the reorganization of the National troops as well as the Communist troops. Now General Chou is very reluctant to make a minor concession and General Chang doesn’t see what harm it will do if the title raised by General Marshall this afternoon will be adopted. He doesn’t see any harm that will be done to them, but it will be stipulated that the Communist troops will be integrated as National troops. So based on all those arguments, he still thinks that the second proposal made by General Marshall should be adopted.
C: General Chou says it is not the point of the integration that he refused to accept but rather it is the fact that the latest title suggested would not cover the whole contents of the agreement, because the integration actually affects all the armies and he has cited that we have references for the integration of all armies. We have points such as the PCC decisions and also in the recommendation of the Conference of Three. Though in the last discussion between the Government and the Communist Party they have stated about the reorganization of the Communist forces into 20 divisions, but now we have exceeded the scope of that discussion. We are going to discuss about the demobilization of both armies to much smaller figure, which also affects both armies. Therefore, he thinks the old title no longer suits to the present situation. However, as a compromise he suggests the following title, “The Basis for the Reorganization of the Chinese Armies and the Integration of the Communist Armies into the National Forces.”
Lee: Military Reorganization? Put just a change of one word in your original proposal. Instead of “Demobilization” put in “Reorganization”.
G: General Chang doesn’t like to raise any complications. He would ask your advice.
M: Is that acceptable to him?
G: Yes.
M: Then it is agreed and understood that the title of this paper shall be, “Basis for Military Reorganization and for the Integration of Communist Army into the National Forces.”
[Page 281]G: General Chang said he would like to leave the matter to you. Whatever you said would be agreeable to him.
M: I think that is satisfactory. I would like to make this additional comment. If something like the introduction I submitted last night for the press release is adopted, no title would ordinarily appear. The articles of agreement follow. You just put the articles down. I wasn’t going to bring that up for discussion now, I was just commenting on it. Are there any comments on this revised draft of the articles. I would suggest we say Communist forces into the National Army.
Lee: We have checked up on the Chinese translation and we have come across several points which might be of interest to you. We say basis of agreement. Would it be better to say basic plan?
M: That doesn’t mean the same thing to us.
Lee: Both of them agree that we use “the agreement” in the articles but we maintain “basis” for the title.
M: That is the way it is now.
Lee: In translating service area into Chinese, we think that Chinese translation may not cover all the functions. There is nothing wrong with the English[,] it is in the Chinese translation.
Lee: What about supply areas instead of service areas.
Pee: It is more than supply, it is supervising military schools, the administration, taking care of demobilized personnel.
G: General Chang raised the point, military administrative areas.
M: Does that translate easier. If you use the words, “Military administrative areas”[,] that is all right in English if it will help in Chinese.
G: They agreed to drop that proposal. General Chang now suggests that we just retain the service areas in Chinese.
M: Does “military administrative area” translate easier.
G: That will imply the power to administer over personnel, to get the personnel for change of personnel.
M: These people are going to have something to do with that, sending personnel to the areas.
G: That implies jurisdiction over the personnel and that will give the wrong impression.
M: I never liked our word service area. We took that for the lack of anything else.
Lee: They agree to keep the Chinese translation of service areas.
General Marshall, there is a little ambiguity in the last sentence of the last paragraph of Article 3, page 4, last sentence. “The instructions of the Ministry of National Defense and the state of supply and similar matters of the service area shall be presented and discussed.” [Page 282] Does it mean that during the meeting, instructions from the Ministry of National Defense as well as the state of supply or similar matters to be discussed—does it mean that the instructions from the Ministry of National Defense, they will have the jurisdiction to discuss the intent?
M: I will tell you the intention and you can discuss it. I was trying to make certain that all the information of what the Ministry of National Defense had placed at the disposal of this director was on the table that he and everyone could see it. He had been given so many invoices or [of?] stores of clothing and all the various things concerned, so that the people that come in could comment on them. It was not the understanding that they were authorized to change the orders from above. This was done so that if the divisions and armies were not getting all that they should receive the commander would be able to determine what had been given to the director so that the army and divisions commanders could protect their own interests. Now a representative from the Ministry of National Defense was to be present to keep them aware of all that was going on. It wasn’t intended that they were going to revise the instructions, just comment on them. The instructions of the Ministry of National Defense shall be presented and the state of supply and similar matters of the service area discussed. Is that all right.
G & C: Yes.
Lee: We have a few changes in the English text, and as we read along we will present our suggestions.
M: Yes.
Lee: Page 1, fourth line, add (or National Military Council).
M: I was wondering about the first sentence. He the Commander-in-Chief [—] instead of “shall be”. Is that he “shall” or he “will” exercise his command.
C: Just he exercises his command.
M: Has he been exercising his command through the National Military Council?
G: Yes.
M: Then you would say he exercises his command.
Pee: In the capacity of the Chairman of the National Military Council.
M: It is a more tactful expression to say he exercises his command.
Lee: Next sentence, the army groups should go first according to the rank, and the armies, the separate armies.
M: We have got to have separate armies because the commanders of the army in the group wouldn’t report direct.
C: And of the separate armies.
[Page 283]M: “The commanders of the army groups and of the separate armies and of the directors of the service areas”, leave out “each of”.
Lee: Section 2, line 5, is it Communist officer or official.
M: Do you want that officer changed from official?
It has got to be an officer or this thing doesn’t apply to it, and he is going to be out of the political thing.
C: General Chou understands that after the integration we may not consider the whole integrated unit as a Communist-led unit. For example in the army group you may have the vice commander to be a Communist or certain chief of staff or staff members who are certainly not commanders of any Communist-led units and therefore it may be necessary to have some other clause to apply to them.
M: We are in a little bit of trouble there. At an integration he has a lot of National people in there. How does he wish it written.
C: He proposes no change.
M: Does he want “command” there or “position”.
C: He prefers “position”.
M: You don’t have to have “in the Army” do you?
C: No.
M: That reads now “communist-led unit or any Communist officer holding other position, the Commander-in-Chief shall appoint in the place,” etc. A staff position isn’t a command you see. Any other changes.
Lee: Article 2, Section 1, line four, “domestic disorders”. Article 3, Section 1, end of third line to make it uniform, change field forces to armies.
M: With us the field forces are the ground troops out in the field. The army with us refers to either the U. S. Army or a specific army out in the field. It doesn’t matter to us, just what is the best translation into Chinese.
Lee: The armies is the best translation. The next line, “shall consist of 108 divisions of not to exceed 14,000 men.” May we add, “each”.
M: That is all right.
Lee: Section 2, line two, add (or National Military Council). This is proofreading actually. Regarding the functions of the directors of the service areas, “The supply, quartering and pay of all field forces.” May we make that military units?
M: Yes. In the next line we use the expression, “which may be stationed,” should we use, “located”.
Lee: Yes. In the second paragraph may we put storage ahead of reconditioning?
M: We always recondition before storing, I want to make certain you don’t store them before reconditioning them.
[Page 284]Lee: The last two words of page three, “field forces” should read “armies”. Page four, third line insert (or National Military Council). The fifth line, we use “field forces” which should read “armies”.
M: Yes. Change “stationed” to “located”.
Lee: Next line change “our” to “or”. Regarding the second paragraph starting on line four with the words, “There shall be a meeting every second month”, I think that should be a new paragraph.
M: That is all right.
Lee: Fourth line from the bottom add (or National Military Council).
Pee: On page four, the first line from the top, “The supply and supervision of administration of any schools within the area[”] come back to the other argument and it is inconsistent with the present organization of the National Military Council because the administration of the schools is charged to another organization.
M: “The supply of military schools within the area.” You would remove, “under policies and procedures established by the Ministry of National Defense”. That would all go out. That paragraph will then read, “The supply of military schools within the area.” Should we put in that the word located within.
G: It is not necessary.
Lee: Page five, third line from the bottom, “the organization to be demobilized”. Should we say army units for organization?
M: That is all right. We found our use of the word “organization” was totally different from the British.
Lee: On page six, the fifth line and sixth line, change organizations to the army units. End of Section 2 add (or Council). The last sentence of Section 2 may we use the French word matériel?
M: That is all right.
Lee: Second line, page 8, 6 armies, shall we say “each” and delete “each” in next line.
M: All right.
Lee: Page 9, end of Section 1, should read disorders. Page 10, Section 4, I think should read, “Neither the Government nor any political party nor any group, etc.” Page 12, Section 2. I think the construction could be improved a little. “It is understood and agreed that the detailed plans above referred to shall provide that the demobilization shall start at the earliest practical date, etc.” I think that is all I can suggest.
M: You have done a good job. We should have you as the Professor of English.
G: General Chang said that the Minister of War had the opinion that the Central China area being comprised of 11 provinces with only 8 armies, while South China has only 6 provinces with 6 armies, [Page 285] needs more strength. So they like to take two armies from South China to reinforce Central China. In the first 12 months.
M: That is all right. That will be 9 armies each consisting of 3 National divisions, and that will be a total of 10. One of those goes out eventually if it goes up to Japan.
G: Yes.
M: Any other changes.
G: There are no other changes.
M: Then is it all right to pass to discussion of this press release?20
G: Yes.
M: Is that first paragraph all right.
G: General Chang and General Chou both agreed to put the names in that document. We, General Chang Chih Chung, representative of the government and General Chou En-lai, representative of the Communist Party. How about you.
M: No, I am an advisor.
G: General Chang thinks it is better for your name to appear as an advisor.
M: Do you think it is a good thing for me to [be] announcing something in China. I didn’t the last time as a member of the committee. I was chairman of the committee and yet I wasn’t in the press announcement. It has this great disadvantage that will pertain. Possibly out here there will be many that resent my participation like this, but the principal objection is this. It will go to the United States and naturally they will play me up and they will not mention General Chang and General Chou. That will all come back to China. That was my reason for thinking it was inadvisable and that was the reason why I stayed out as chairman of the other committee, but I am not chairman of this committee. I may be the professor, but I am not the chairman. If they want my signature I will put it on, but I don’t want to push myself forward in this thing.
G: General Chang and General Chou both agreed that they would like very much to have you sign.
M: I will sign as an advisor as the last signature, so if we are going to be hung I will hang with you.
G: General Chang said that he quite understands and appreciates the points you have just discussed about the objections of including your name in the press release, but he is concerned about something else for the Chinese papers don’t understand the nature of the meeting and as they always call this the Military Sub-Committee of Three or the Committee of Three all putting your name in publications, [Page 286] so if we do not include your name in the press release then the people will not understand that you are participating in this meeting.
M: All right, add my name as an advisor.
That would read, “We, General Chang Chih Chung, representative of the Government and General Chou En-lai, representative of the Chinese Communist Party, constituting the Military Sub-Committee of which General Marshall was advisor have been authorized to announce that an agreement has been reached on the basis for military reorganization and for the integration of the Communist forces into the National Army.” I think it ought to be put in there without putting all my name in, just say General Marshall. The second paragraph, what about it? Please do not hesitate to change my language. I naturally had more in mind an American reaction than a Chinese reaction, so do not hesitate to carve this up. I have no pride of authorship.
G: We would like to eliminate “confusion” in the third paragraph and say difficulty.
M: Omit, hardship?
G: Yes.
Lee: Regarding the fourth paragraph, since this is not a plan for the nationalization of the armies of China, it is only a preliminary step towards that goal, the objectives of this agreement are to furnish the necessary measures for the development of effective military force capable of safeguarding the security of China.
M: Would you say the objects of the agreement furnishes the necessary basis instead of measure for the development.
L[ee]: That is better.
M: The agreement furnishes the necessary basis for the development of an effective military force capable of safeguarding the security of China.
Lee: Do you think it will be better to drop the last sentence, “The terms of the …”?21
M: Whatever you like.
G: General Chang raised one point on the third paragraph. First sentence, third paragraph. The agreement will facilitate the economic rehabilitation of the nation and furnishes the necessary basis for the development of a military force for economic rehabilitation so he thinks it will make a better impression among the common people.
M: Will you repeat that again, please.
G: The objectives of this agreement is to facilitate the economic [Page 287] rehabilitation of China. General Chang feels that we should put the economic rehabilitation first as that will create a better impression in the mind of the public in a positive way.
C: General Chou agrees.
M: It would read like this then, “The object of agreement is to facilitate the economic rehabilitation of the nation and at the same time furnish a basis for the development of an effective military force.
That will be “to furnish”. What about that next sentence of the fourth paragraph. May I again back up, “The object of the agreement is to facilitate the economic rehabilitation of China capable of safeguarding the security of the nation.[”] Shall we discuss this last sentence?
C: General Chou said that he understands the idea of what to put down in this sentence is that we are going to form an army democratically and he thinks that the present system is too much negative. To safeguard the people, that is too negative. He likes to see something positive. We are going to establish an Army democratically and he thinks it is too negative.
M: We have got to be careful that we don’t intrude too much on the prerogatives of the PCC and the National Council and all those things. I had changed it to read this way the terms of the agreement include certain principles. That is a milder way of putting it. I think General Chou’s proposal would be more calculated to arouse the reaction of the PCC people and the constitutional people than this rather negative expression. I thought when I wrote that they would object saying that it wasn’t any of our business. It was our business to see that the military system was covered by the democratic system. We can change that any way you gentlemen want it. It is a very important statement, I admit that. We could make it even briefer by saying, “Certain principles are included to safeguard the freedom of the people from military oppression.”
C: Regarding the word “oppression” General Chou just suggested to change it to read “interference.”
M: I think that is better. It puts it in a little milder tone.
G: General Chang is afraid that the general rank and file will not understand. In that plan it has no specific provisions to forbid the military forces to interfere with the freedom of the people.
M: There are no specific provisions for the freedom of the people? Yes there are. You don’t recognize them then. Article 2 is a very specific provision. Take the last sentence of section 1, that is very specific.
[Page 288]G: It is rather a restriction on the power of the government more than a restriction on the freedom of the people.
M: It is a restriction of power to protect the people. That is the way every democracy works.
G: Then wouldn’t it be more accurate to say the restriction of the power of government for the protection of the people?
M: I wouldn’t want to say that.
G: Certain principles are included to restrict the powers of the government.
M: Isn’t that a bad thing to say. Restrict the Generalissimo. We lay down methods to restrict the army to do these things, but it seems to me that it would be tactless to put the other in there. I should think that would be strongly objected to. We could say provisions. How would it do if it read like this. “The force capable of securing the safety of China, including provisions to safeguard the people from military interference.” Is that acceptable.
C: Yes.
G: General Chang said that the word articles appearing in this press release, he thinks it would be better to put in the basis. In the third paragraph the “object of the agreement” wouldn’t it be better to have it the “object of this basic plan” and then the last clause, “the articles of agreement follow”, and then in the second paragraph, the Military Sub[-]Committee is now preparing the detailed plan for the agreement to be carried into execution. The terms of the plan and the execution.
They are talking about the title of the Executive Headquarters, because in Chinese the Executive Headquarters is an executive headquarters for handling military readjustment so in the future if they carry on the work of reorganization, the name of that headquarters should be changed.
M: It is going to be doing these other things at the same time.
G: They are not to change anything at all.
M: Now as I understand this, the press release will be published as they have just agreed and it will be followed immediately by the articles without the title, as the title appears up here in the second paragraph and then at the close of the articles will be the signature of General Chang and General Chou.
G: Also General Marshall.
M: I thought you had enough of me.
G: General Chang requests that General Marshall sign too. General Chang just [makes?] the point that if any instructions are to be sent to the Executive Headquarters, those instructions will be [by?] three names instead of two.
[Page 289]M: I am not quite so certain. It seems to me that when this press release comes out by the instructions under the agreement [they?] would go out from the Generalissimo. This basis has to be confirmed in some way. I should imagine that we ought to have a letter of transmittal of this, sending it to the Generalissimo and to Chairman Mao Tze-tung. Now then we should have some statement somewhere that they agree. Now the moment that they agree, it then becomes the function of the government to put this down to the Executive Headquarters.
G: In the future when the Executive Headquarters refers it back to Chungking, in that case however we ought to give them any subsequent instructions as necessary.
M: If they want to refer to higher level, I am fully willing to put my name on. I am not a member of this committee. The Executive Headquarters is composed of three people. How does he wish it?
G: He wishes that in the subsequent instructions to be given to the Executive Headquarters, he hopes you shall also sign it.
M: I am willing to do so. I would like to ask one or two more questions. Has General Chou the authority to confirm this now in the name of Chairman Mao Tse-tung?
C: Yes.
M: It doesn’t have to be sent to Yenan.
C: No.
M: What is General Chang’s position in regard to that?
G: General Chang said that the Generalissimo will be back in the next day or two. He will be back in town so he thinks that he should present this paper to him to look over.
M: Then we will have to also await on the press release too.
G: Yes. After the formal signature of that paper then that press release22 will be issued.
M: General Chang doesn’t feel that he can sign the paper until he has spoken to the Generalissimo. Is that correct?
G: General Chang says in retyping and rewriting of both English and Chinese version it may take a little time and he is obliged to present it to the Generalissimo.
M: The understanding is that this awaits General Chang’s formal approval. There is no occasion then for a formal meeting tomorrow. They want the corrected papers but nothing further than that. Is that correct?
G: Yes. No meeting tomorrow.
M: No meeting tomorrow until some other word is received.