Marshall Mission Files, Lot 54–D270
Minutes of Meeting of Military Sub-Committee at House 28, General Marshall’s Residence, Chungking, March 27, 1946, 4:15 p.m.
| Present: | General Chang Chih Chung |
| General Chou En-lai | |
| General A. C. Gillem, Jr. | |
| Also present: | General Kuo |
| General Lee | |
| General Hsu | |
| Colonel Pee | |
| General Tung | |
| Mr. Chang | |
| Colonel Caughey | |
| Captain Eng |
General Gillem: Will you express to the gentlemen my appreciation over the signing the papers this morning and getting that settled. It was a very great satisfaction to have completed that important mission and we have notified General Marshall that that has been done.
General Chang: General Chang and General Chou both join to thank you for the efforts you have made for the past to [have] settled that problem.
General Gillem: It is impossible for one man—it must be three. I was a little bit afraid that I was going to have to go to Manchuria by myself.
General Chang: General Chang said that the two horses are giving you a little difficulty driving the carriage.
General Gillem: We have settled that one problem, now we have two more.
General Chang: This seems to be General Chang’s last class to attend. That is, he has to go to Sinkiang day after tomorrow. The representative of the tribe arrived at Tihwa and is waiting for General Chang and he asks if perhaps you would let him graduate.
General Gillem: If he performs well this afternoon we will do so. The problem that concerns us now, will be presented by General Chou. I will sit back and listen to the discussion and see if we can arrange matters satisfactorily.
General Chou: I wish to say a few words on Manchuria and particularly since General Chang may be leaving for a short period soon I want to bring it up here. Regarding the mission of the teams it has been definitely stated by the Committee of Three and we have further agreed that military matters pertaining to Manchuria will be further discussed by this Committee while the political matters will be discussed separately. It therefore means that this Committee will continue to discuss on the military matters to bring about the cessation of hostilities and also on other matters after cessation of hostilities. [Page 607] After the cessation of hostilities other problems will arise and there is one difference between Manchuria and China proper. That is if Government troops are going to enter certain places, there is a complete freezing in China proper. However this morning I have read a statement by the spokesman of the National Military Council. It seems to me that there is some question in this statement. This spokesman flatly denied that there is hostilities in Manchuria. We know this is not the view of the Committee of Three. Our view is that all hostilities have to be ceased and a solution should be found. If according to this spokesman, the fact that the Government attacked Communist troops cannot be called hostilities or if on the Communist side if they defend themselves, it should not be called hostilities, such assertions are not true. Our view is that whenever there are attacks or fighting these are hostilities and have to be ceased and I wish to make sure that this Committee of Three and the field teams all may have such an understanding. Now secondly, in the past when the Government started to move troops into Manchuria, the erstwhile Government representative, Chang Chun, has stated that the number of Government troops will not be large and on the U. S. forces side it has also promised to move only 5 armies. Now that figure has already been reached. However, I learn since there are hostilities now in Manchuria the Government intend to send more and we wish here to call the attention of the Government that if the troops to enter Manchuria are simply for the purpose of taking over then the present figure is large enough for this purpose. The present figure has also reached the amount fixed by the Army reorganization plan57 to be disposed at [in] Manchuria and we also take into consideration the fact that all those divisions are Alpha divisions, fully equipped and trained. If more troops are sent up then there is the danger of further hostilities. According to the agreement, the stipulation of the cease fire agreement [is] the Government should inform the Executive Headquarters about the movement of troops and on the one hand as the amount of troops sent into Manchuria are unlimited then there exists the danger that the conflicts will be augmented. Since the field teams are going to be dispatched into Manchuria then in their presence everything should be brought up to the field team for discussion and both parties should report the military situation to the field team and the Committee of Three so that the Committee of Three have a reference to settle all the conflicts and other military problems. Therefore, it is my view and I formally propose that the Government would not send more troops into Manchuria and hope that the solution would be beneficial. Now regarding the dispatch of field teams to Manchuria [Page 608] I hope that we will instruct the Executive Headquarters that they would first send the teams all to Mukden and there try to establish contact with troops of both parties. Try to get their representatives to Mukden and so that when the Committee of Three arrives in Mukden they can immediately contact their own people. After the three men arrive there they shall decide to what places the field teams shall be further dispatched. It seems to me only when the three man committee is getting familiarized with the actual situation would it be easy for them to make decisions.
General Gillem: General Chang?
General Chang: General Chang says that according to the reorganization plan the Government troops stationed in Manchuria will be five armies. The Government has no intention to exceed that number after reorganization. No intention to increase the troops in Manchuria after reorganization. After reorganization there will be only five armies in Manchuria. Furthermore, any movement of troops into Manchuria the Government will inform the Executive Headquarters in Peking so it will not be kept as a secret and it can’t be a secret. General Chang talked to the responsible departments of the Government and the responsible officers of those departments have told General Chang that we have no intention at all to exceed that number, 5 armies, after reorganization. General Chang hasn’t had a chance to bring it forward to the conferences. The responsible Government departments just informed General Chang that there are movements from Shantung Peninsula near Chefoo to Dairen of Communist troop movement by steamer and wooden barges carried out very secretly. We have received word that Communists moved troops overland in Shansi province. General Chang likes to take this opportunity to bring to General Chou’s attention this information. It seems that the Government will move into Manchuria and will make a report on every movement to Executive Headquarters in Peking—there is no secrecy. It seems that if Communist troops are moved into Manchuria they can do it secretly without informing the Executive Headquarters in Peking. As both sides are all concerned to solve the Manchurian problem amicably so that is why General Chang is being very frank to make this statement this afternoon at this conference. He hopes that both sides will particularly stick to the agreement upon which both sides signed and not in any way violate the provisions and the spirit of those agreements. If we have farsightedness, we may see that after the demobilization and reorganization the Government will only have five armies in Manchuria while the Communists will have one army in Manchuria. If either side will bring many additional units into Manchuria it will create a problem of how to dispose them for there is no need to increase the forces into [Page 609] Manchuria. If both sides will carry out the demobilization plan carefully then the so-called increasing numbers in Manchuria will cease to be a problem. Regarding another point raised by General Chou, whether the Government troops attack, or either side attacks, we now have shortly teams in Manchuria and they can act as the umpire to make study and observe which side is attacking and which side will be attacked and we can have that in the near future. Regarding the third point raised by General Chou about the teams after arriving in Mukden they will maintain liaison to all concerned, General Chang thinks that is a very good point and he has nothing to add.
General Chou: With reference to the movement of Communist troops into other places the situation in Manchuria is that before January 10th the Communists have moved certain troops from Shantung, Jehol and Hopeh to Manchuria and the information received by the Ministry of Military Operations is true but after January 10th no troop movement whatever has been made. There may be some officers have individually come from Manchuria to China proper, but there have been no troop movements. It has been alleged that Communists have moved troops from Shantung to Manchuria and on this allegation the field team has surveyed this and found it untrue. This is evidence that such kind of allegation is not correct. Since the field teams will now be dispatched to Manchuria and they will be located in the areas of both armies and they can see the situation they can find out for themselves.
General Gillem: I have made one point here that I would like to see if it has the concurrence of both of the representatives. That is that all the teams go initially to Mukden and from there they will be dispersed to areas where they can supervise and report for the benefit of the Committee of Three. Is that the wish of the two gentlemen?
General Chang and General Chou indicated that was the agreement.
General Gillem: I believe it would be unreasonable to expect other than rumors from any source with reference to what actually is occurring inside Manchuria. We have no accurate information. Therefore the importance of the field teams is brought home at once. We must get them in to get accurate information. This will dispel some of the movements and allegations. Likewise the reports as to attacks and defenses, or in other words combat, can be verified which will be helpful to all concerned. If troop movements are reported as required by the stipulation, the Committee of Three can keep informed as to any violation of any agreement to which we are all party. I am sure that open and aboveboard methods are desirable from all points of view. Whether this committee can do more at this time with reference to these matters is somewhat questionable. We must depend [Page 610] upon information at this time from first hand, accurate reports on the ground. I am open to any suggestion as to any action. We have settled the matter of the teams. Are there any other comments with reference to any of the other points made by either of the gentlemen?
General Chang: General Chang agrees with General Gillem’s view to have the teams go as soon as possible and then try to settle the situation down there. That seems to be the best way.
General Chou agrees.
General Gillem: We are now preparing the necessary instructions to Peking. In view of the fact that General Chang said something about going day after tomorrow and that there may be a need for the Committee of Three to go shortly after the team can you give me any suggestion as to who will be his replacement?
General Chang: Regarding General Chang’s going to Sinkiang he had a talk to General Chou prior to the conference and he intended to discuss with General Gillem. He wishes to inform General Gillem that his departure was decided very suddenly, only by 11:30 this morning. The Government decided he should proceed to Tihwa because the representatives have already arrived on the 25th and General Chang must go to solve the problems. Before that he himself thought he would have time to go to Manchuria. There are at least five others named as successors and among them are Chen Cheng. Chang Chun. The Generalissimo is considering General Chang’s successor.
General Gillem: I would like to ask if the replacement to take General Chang’s place will be given all the background on all the problems that have been discussed and all the problems that are confronting us in the future?
General Chang: General Chang says he will discuss with his successor what has happened in the past, but if he leaves anything out, his staff can make any addition.
General Gillem: I think General Chou will also bring it up if anything is left out. We are having a copy of the telegram drafted for the team and while we are waiting on that I would like to get some idea as to a suitable time that we might depart. We must allow the teams a few days to get in there and be oriented and we can make up a tentative time so necessary arrangements can be made for air transportation.
General Chang: What is the opinion of General Gillem?
General Gillem: It will take the team, this being the 27th, until at least the 20th to get to Mukden because we must transmit information there to them, at best the 28th. They must then go and from the information they have and contact the officers there, I think that [Page 611] will take a day or two more. They must then join the units to which they propose to go. I do not believe it will be less than about 10 days. I think it will take that long before we could do any good. Suppose we tentatively set the time as about the 5th, around that would be two days and five days—one week approximately. As a target date, it may be one side or the other by a day or two because this is the 27th and that is out of the picture and that leaves three days more this month and 5 days making about one week as a target date. It is very important that we get there at the earliest time. However, we might get there too early as to be of no use because arrangements had not been made. I think about one week or eight days would be the target date. We do not know the weather conditions and reports indicate very heavy rains a day or two ago making movements very difficult so it might be a very difficult thing for the teams to get to their initial points and back in less time. We have a copy of the telegram now and in view of the importance of getting the teams in very early, please notice the second sentence.
(Captain Eng read the following: “Committee of Three met this afternoon and agreed that all teams for Manchuria initially proceed to Mukden and from there move out to critical areas after surveys in the Mukden area indicate which areas are most critical. (From Gillem for Committee of Three.) This is to be considered as a recommendation and not binding in case this will disrupt plans or delay departure of teams. In this connection the Committee of Three will soon visit Mukden in which case the Committee will assist in determining the critical areas and will make recommendations as to any readjustments of the field teams it deems necessary.” [)]
General Chang and General [Chou] agreed to dispatch of message.
General Chou: General Chou calls your attention to the fact that you said the Committee of Three will proceed to Mukden after ten days. By that time General Chang might be back already.
General Chang: General Chang hopes that he may be back in ten days so that he may take this trip to Manchuria. He has never been to Manchuria before. He certainly was looking forward to going. The Generalissimo also made the same remark—after a fortnight you may have come back to Chungking.
General Gillem: I hope so. We shall miss him on this trip very much making his fine speeches like he did at Yenan. What is the next item. Is there any other comments on this before we take up the next. Colonel Caughey is going to send the telegram.
(Had a short intermission at this point.)
[For remainder of text, discussing problems of Canton and Hankow areas, see page 621.]