Hiss Collection
Hiss Notes1
“Crimea Conf.”
Plenary
2/7 4:10 p. m.
Ed Page—added to Mol. report—given to Chip2
D. O.
Mol.—Yesterday heard full report from ERS We are satisfied with this report & we have got some explanations (to ask). After this report & after these explanations certain q’s became much clearer We paid much atten to what Church told us After report of ES & remarks of Church the q is considerably clarified for us In the light of these explanations & remarks we believe it would secure the unan. of 3 powers in guar. p. & sec. after the war. Our position in the qs of D. O. essentially was to secure max. of unity among 3 gt. powers in q of p & sec after the war. We believe the decs. taken at D. O & modifications suggested by Pres will secure collab by all nations great & small after war. ... we consider the proposals which were presented as acceptable to us We believe that now there is reach full agt & clarity among ourselves I have to touch upon one q. which was raised in D. O. but not decided yet. This is the q about particip of Sov. Reps in the org. of sec. You know our point of view It is based on the modifs carried out in our Const. in Feb of last yr. We explained our point of view & know the point of view of US Govt & Brit Govt We consider its fair that should not pass these qs without notice but do not raise this q now in same form as in D. O.
We would consider it fair that at least 3 of our Reps or perhaps 2 be accepted as orig members. Have in mind Ukraine, Byelo Russia & Lith. Those 3 or at any rate 2 have full rts to be considered orig. members.
Ukraine’s Importance, pop., econ importance all well known I don’t want to go into detail in describing also import, of B–R & Lith also from point of view of for. rels These reps made the [Page 722] greatest sacrifices in this war The peoples of U,–B–R & Lith have suffered very much in this war & were 1st to be invaded Would be fair of these 3 or at any rate 2 be accepted as orig. members. The Sov Govt requests Pres & PM these 3 or at least 2 be accepted among other Un. Ns I would like to mention in this connection that the domins of Brit crown approached int. rels gradually & showed great patience. This gives us the example & reason to withdraw our orig. proposal advanced at D. O. & propose now 3 or at least 2 be accepted as orig. members. Among members of Ass. these few reps certainly should find place due them. Their role & sacrifices in this war entitle
Pres. Much gratified at what Mol. has said in acceding to the gen. plan That is making real progress. Next thing we have consider is timing What is next step. Invitations will go out to all nations that have had a place in this war
Church—the Ger War Pres Yes
Pres No use talking much further about Un Ns We are all agreed except it has not been set up. Next we should invite all nations to assemble. Gt. sentiment in US be held soon as possible—end of Mar., 1st of April
Physically repres. of Un Ns could meet in 4 wks—1 month. Personally I think that quicker q of Un Ns meeting is determined, quicker we can take up what Mr Mol has said which is very interesting to me. But that in itself will mean the later meetings after the organ. is set up As a practical matter when we have this organizing meeting whom shall we ask? Nations in the war or those associated but not in the war. For instance shall we invite—— The assoc. nations have broken rels with Ger. but have not declared war. We Read list. We’ve got to decide who we’re going to invite What we have heard from Mr Mol. gives me a very great int. in matter of a vote for Uk, Wh. R, Lith. We 3 M. St., P. M & I have different views because our terrs. are so very different The Brit Em has great pops like Austr, Can., S Af Sov Govt has great masses of pop. like 3 areas Mol mentioned. US is contiguous—no colonies, const. provides for 1 For Min. Those things require study, require study of q of more than 1 vote for the larger nations in the world. In same way certain nations have large terrs. Brazil smaller than S. U but larger than U. S. In same way many small countries like Haiti, Honduras & we should consider whether by giving any govt more than 1 vote we would break down prin of 1 vote for each. ∴ if we can agree on gen plan for meeting to organ. U Ns we can consider these q’s by For Mins or at the meeting of the organizers
Pres: For Mins have so successful suggested q. of voting in Ass. be referred to For Mins. Also to recommend time & place of a conf.
[Page 723]Church: I should like to express my heartfelt thanks to Mar. St. & Sov Govt for the enormous step they have taken to put forward D. O. I’m sure the agt of the 3 gt powers such as has already been expressed around this table will give joy & relief to thinking people around the world. On the q of voting membership of the Ass., it has been put before us in quite a new form by our R. friends & allies
Everyone I’m sure will feel that here again a very remarkable advance to gen. agt. has been made. I must fully agree with the Pres that the position of the US & of the Brit Em. are different. We have our 4 selfgoverning domins, that for nearly a quarter of a century have played a part in the organ. of p. which broke down before the present war. All these 4 doms have worked for p & for democratic purposes & all without hesitation sprang into the war when we declared it though they knew how weak we were. We had no means of compelling them & no rt. to give them any summons but they came freely in a matter in which they could only be partially consulted. We could never agree to any system which excluded them from the position they have held & justified for over ¼ of a century. It is for this very reason that I could not listen to the proposal of the Sov Govt without a feeling of profound sympathy. My heart goes out to mighty Russia, bleeding from her wounds & conquering & beating down the tyrant in her path. I should feel that a nation so great with 180,000,000 people would perhaps have cause to look at our Brit org with a questioning eye if they had but one vote when their nos. far exceed our own, speaking of whites. I was very glad that the Pres made an answer which could in no way be considered a final neg. to the consideration of this proposal. I must not however exceed my own personal auth. We have only just heard this new proposal & I should like to discuss it with the For Sec & possibly send a tel. to the Brit. War Cab. We only want to see done what is rt & fair. ∴ I will ask the Mar. to excuse me if I do not give precise final answer on behalf of HMG here today. I will not lose time.
Pres My motion was a little different It did not call for a dec. today. Refer the study to For Mins & second where it should be held & who should be invited.
Church Very glad—we are putting great deal on them—very large & simple Re meeting suggested by Pres I shouldn’t think it desirable hold it so early as March. In Mar. we shall be at the very height of the battle on both the fronts, more millions of soldiers will be engaged than ever before. Our dom. problems in Eng are very complicated with shortage of labor, housing & need of supplying fighting forces at the front. We also have a Par which is in active [Page 724] life from day to day & claims large share of the atten. of the Mins. incl. For Sec.
We are now already a quarter thru Feb I wonder also whether state of the world & Eur. particularly is such as not to make a meeting diff. of all the Un Ns If they are charged with the most tremendous tasks of the future will they have behind them the full thought of their people. Will they have anything left over after vital needs of the war are met. I wonder what the aspect of the Ass. would wear. Could premiers be present?
Pres: This is not a meeting of the Ass.—only of the organizing conf.
Church But they would be same people How many of the nations there will still be in the bondage of the Gers. We do not know how they will represent their people. Another group will be starving in their frightful misery amid the scenes of war. Holland will be there with her ghastly ruins. Fr. will be there with a loud voice. With all these agonized communities will also be joined a large no. of nations who have not suffered at all in the war. Ns that have not even declared war. I can not think that the meeting of such an ass. would be free from the danger of becoming chaotic. Some ns will be screaming in agony & others will be calmly weighing the problems of the future. I see particular diffs for an early meeting so far as Brit. is concerned
Church Position in Eng though perfectly calm & steady is governed by our own const. We may have a gen. election impending. May have new parliament to carry with us, may have entirely new set of ministers
Will always do our best to comply with the Pres. wishes but I feel it absolutely nec. to put on record the very great diff. which I see, practically And I should be very disappointed if the settlement of the membership of Ass was postponed till new meeting of Un Ns can be held
Pres again propose to refer to For Mins to study membership & date & place of meeting & who should be invited
Stalin agreed
Church I said earlier no objection to it being discussed by For Mins but is not a technical matter but one of large & broad dec. Not at all sure matters will be advanced by the discussion
St. 3 Mins will meet, discuss & report
Agreed
(Intermission)
[Page 725]Church. proposed Iran be remitted to For Mins
| →{ | (Pres says to ERS he can cable Chiang & get consent re voting immediately | } |
| He would not consult France, merely invite Fr. to the meeting} While waiting for Molotov’s paper on Pol. |
Pres. raised q. of int. economics—another reason for early estab. of Un Ns Org—should be some way of getting ns that have no purchasing power to get some—historically Persia well wooded before Turks came—no erosion, water—today poorest place I have ever seen in the world. That is why I hope new Un Ns Org. will concern itself with those countries that have no money with which to get goods While on this subject—parallel one—in Eur. some areas have coal, cheap power & light from water. Why favoritism to those who have coal & water or cheap elec. light rates when others 50 miles away have no water, no light Sov. govts. all the Soviets are all thinking in terms like that. We are thinking in terms like that—TVA
Poland
Mol. In E. Curzon line, 5–8 Kms digression in some regions in favor of Pol.
In W. from Stettin along Oder, then along Neisse
Add some emigres to Pol. Govt
Allies recog. Pol Govt now
Prov. Govt. hold elections soon as possible
Mol, Harr., Clark-Kerr to consider & report enlarging Pol. Govt President’s proposals
Can’t reach Poles by phone in time to come here
Pres. We are making real progress
Wants ERS study this tonight.
Knows one word he doesn’t like—“emigre”
Not nec. take emigres Like to have S. D.3 study it until tomorrow Church Agrees with Pres re “emigre”
Re Neisse—we have always qualified movement of Pol. frontier to W that they shouldn’t take much more than they wish or can take care of. Great pity to stuff Pol. goose so full of Ger. food that he died of indigestion. Large school of opin. shocked by transferring many millions of people by force. I am not. Referred to success of Gk-Turk transfers after last war—but only ½ million
If take E. Pr. Silesia up to Oder means 6,000,000 Gers. That might be managed with modern facilities
St. Says there are no more Gers there. Where our troops come in they find no Gers.
[Page 726]Church We have killed 5 or 6 mil. prob. another million before the end. There ought to be room in Ger. for people transferred They will be needed to fill vacancies So not afraid of prob. of transferring pop. so long as proportioned.