Bohlen Collection
Bohlen Minutes
Subject: General Discussion.
After an exchange of amenities, in which the President thanked Marshal Stalin for all the successful efforts that had been made for his comfort and convenience, the President said that the military situation was considerably improved since they had last met.
Marshal Stalin replied that this was certainly true, and that the Soviet armies were moving very successfully onto the line of the Oder.
The President replied that he had made a number of bets on board the cruiser coming over as to whether the Russians would get to Berlin before the Americans would get to Manila.
Marshal Stalin remarked that he was certain the Americans would get to Manila before the Russians got to Berlin, since there was at present very hard fighting going on for the Oder line.
There followed a discussion about the climate and characteristics of the Crimea.
[Page 571]The President said that he had been very much struck by the extent of German destruction in the Crimea and therefore he was more bloodthirsty in regard to the Germans than he had been a year ago, and he hoped that Marshal Stalin would again propose a toast to the execution of 50,000 officers of the German Army.
Marshal Stalin replied that because of the honest blood shed in fighting the Germans, everyone was more bloodthirsty than they had been a year ago, adding that the destruction in the Crimea is nothing compared to that which occurred in the Ukraine. He said in the Crimea the Germans had been out-flanked and had had little time to carry out planned destruction, whereas in the Ukraine they had done it with method and calculation. He said the Germans were savages and seemed to hate with a sadistic hatred the creative work of human beings.
The President agreed with this.
Marshal Stalin then inquired about the military situation on the Western Front.
The President replied that General Marshall, at the five o’clock meeting, would give a detailed outline of the situation and plans, but he could say now that there was an offensive planned for the 8th of February and another on the 12th, but that the main blow of the Anglo-American armies on the Western Front would take place in March.
Marshal Stalin expressed gratification at this news, and said that General Antonov of the Soviet General Staff would give a detailed review of the situation on the Eastern Front at the five o’clock meeting. He added that if it were possible to capture the Ruhr and Saar regions the Germans would be deprived of all sources of coal, since the Russians had already captured the Silesia basin.
The President said he felt that the armies were getting close enough to have contact between and he hoped General Eisenhower could communicate directly with the Soviet Staff rather than through the Chiefs of Staff in London and Washington as in the past.
Marshal Stalin agreed and thought it was very important and promised that the staffs while here would work out the details of this suggestion. He added that if the Germans were deprived of all their coal, since they were already short of bread, there was a possibility that the German collapse would come before absolute military defeat.
The President inquired whether the Soviet bridgeheads across the Oder were sufficient for further offensive action.
Marshal Stalin replied that in regard to these bridgeheads, of which there were five or six, fierce battles were in progress on the Eastern front.
The President said that one of the difficulties on the Western Front was that we had no secure bridgeheads and that on the upper [Page 572] Rhine the current was so strong with floating ice that it made it very difficult for pontoon operations, but that General Eisenhower felt once he reached the Rhine he would be able to cross it, but he did not expect this before March. He added that the British had wanted to make a major crossing of the Rhine on the north sector in Holland, but since we had four times the number of men in France that the British had we felt we were entitled to have an alternative, which would be either through Holland or in the region of Mainz.
The President then inquired how Marshal Stalin had gotten along with General de Gaulle.
Marshal Stalin replied that he had not found de Gaulle a very complicated person, but he felt he was unrealistic in the sense that France had not done very much fighting in this war and de Gaulle demanded full rights with the Americans, British and Russians who had done the burden of the fighting.
The President then described his conversation with de Gaulle in Casablanca two years ago when de Gaulle compared himself with Joan of Arc as the spiritual leader of France and with Clemenceau as the political leader.
Marshal Stalin replied that de Gaulle does not seem to understand the situation in France and that in actual fact the French contribution at the present time to military operations on the Western Front was very small and that in 1940 they had not fought at all.
The President replied that he recently decided to arm eight new French divisions composed of Frenchmen who had had previous military training.
Marshal Stalin said that was good insofar as it would help the American armies but at present he felt the de Gaulle army was very weak.
The President said he had recently heard that the French Government did not plan to annex outright any German territory but they are willing to have it placed under international control.
Marshal Stalin replied that was not the story de Gaulle had told in Moscow—there he said the Rhine was the natural boundary of France and he wished to have French troops placed there in permanency.
The President said he would now tell the Marshal something indiscreet, since he would not wish to say it in front of Prime Minister Churchill, namely that the British for two years have had the idea of artificially building up France into a strong power which would have 200,000 troops on the eastern border of France to hold the line for the period required to assemble a strong British army. He said the British were a peculiar people and wished to have their cake and eat it too.
[Page 573]The President then said that he understood the tripartite zones in regard to occupation of Germany were already agreed upon, to which Marshal Stalin appeared to agree, but he went on to say that one outstanding question was that of a French zone of occupation. The President said he had had a good deal of trouble with the British in regard to zones of occupation. He said that he would of [have] preferred to have the northwest zone which would be independent of communications through France, but the British seemed to think that the Americans should restore order in France and then return political control to the British.
Marshal Stalin inquired whether the President thought France should have a zone of occupation, and for what reason.
The President said he thought it was not a bad idea, but he added that it was only out of kindness.
Both Marshal Stalin and Mr. Molotov spoke up vigorously and said that would be the only reason to give France a zone. Marshal Stalin said that question would have to be considered further here at Yalta.
As it was then three minutes to five, the President suggested that they proceed to the conference room where the military staffs were gathered.2