Foreign Relations of the United States: Diplomatic Papers, 1943, The British Commonwealth, Eastern Europe, the Far East, Volume III

Moscow Embassy Files, Lot F–135

Memorandum of Conversation, by the First Secretary of Embassy in the Soviet Union (Bohlen)

[Moscow,] November 5, 1943.

Participants:	The American Ambassador;34 Mr. Bohlen.
	Mr. Mikoyan, Commissar for Foreign Trade;
	Soviet interpreter.

The Ambassador said that he wanted to have a preliminary discussion with Mr. Mikoyan on certain questions which would arise in the immediate and more distant future. He realized that Mr. Mikoyan was fully preoccupied with questions relating to the immediate prosecution of the war but he thought that it was perhaps not too soon to give some preliminary consideration to the Soviet needs for the reconstruction of its economy after the war. He added that of course it was hard to draw a sharp distinction between supplies for the prosecution of the war which were coming in under Lend-Lease and those which in future might relate primarily to post-war reconstruction.

Mr. Mikoyan replied that he was very glad to discuss any of these questions with the Ambassador and he could say that with the progressive liberation of additional territory by the Red Army the Soviet needs for certain types of equipment had increased and would continue to do so. He referred particularly to the immediate need of equipment and materials to re-establish the railway system, metallurgical plants, coal mines, and electric power stations, all of which he said were directly related to the problems of supplying the Soviet armies. He said that machine tools would also be necessary.

The Ambassador inquired whether the types of equipment Mr. Mikoyan referred to had been covered by the recently signed third protocol or whether additional items would be necessary, to which Mr. Mikoyan replied that some items were already included but that certainly additional requests would have to be made. He said in this connection that the extra $300,000,000 worth of orders in the third protocol would be insufficient. He emphasized the Soviet need for additional tonnage. The Ambassador added that he was quite prepared to help Mr. Mikoyan in regard to any matters of this character which were particularly urgent with a view to obtaining the quickest possible action in Washington.

Mr. Mikoyan then inquired whether the Soviet Union could count on an increase in tonnage from the United States. The Ambassador pointed out in this connection that he thought the request for larger ships could be more readily met in Washington than for smaller vessels of which there was a definite shortage.

In reply to Mr. Mikoyan’s inquiry as to whether the Ambassador had in mind the immediate restoration of war damage or the general reestablishment of Soviet economy after the war, the Ambassador explained in considerable detail the exact legal status of the Lend-Lease Act which by law could only be used to supply equipment and material for the duration of the war and which were obviously directly related to its conduct. He pointed out that while he knew the President and the Lend-Lease officials in Washington were disposed to give a reasonably broad interpretation to this aspect of the Act, it was nonetheless in the interests of both countries to endeavor honestly to keep within the meaning of the Act. Lend-Lease would undoubtedly become an important political question in next year’s elections and the Ambassador was confident that the support of both parties could be obtained provided the work of Lend-Lease could be honestly and clearly presented. He added that he knew the American people were very desirous of assisting in the reconstruction of the Soviet Union after the war and that it might be possible now to begin to discuss the question of future credits and financial assistance for that purpose. He went on to say that with this in mind he was prepared at Mr. Mikoyan’s convenience to discuss any or all aspects of the question and he wondered whether it might not be profitable at some time in the future to consider the desirability of American engineers coming to the Soviet Union to ascertain the exact designs and other details of the desired equipment in order to save time. He pointed out in this regard that aside from the sympathy of the American people it would be in the self-interest of the United States to be able to afford full employment during the period of transition from war-time to peace-time economy.

Mr. Mikoyan said that Mr. Hopkins had already had some conversations with Mr. Lukashev³⁵ of the Soviet Purchasing Commission in Washington on the question of post-war reconstruction and had suggested the formation of a special committee to discuss the matter. Mr. Hopkins had said in his conversation that American industrialists were interested to know whether the Soviet Government intended to place large orders in the United States or whether it intended to use European sources of supply. Mr. Mikoyan emphasized that, all other things being equal, the Soviet Government preferred American equipment both because of its quality and because of its standardization to any European equipment either British or German. He added, however, that there were certain conditions which necessarily affected Soviet orders, namely financing, that is credit terms and prices. In regard to the latter, Mr. Mikoyan said he expected that prices would go down.

(Mr. Mikoyan seemed surprised that the Ambassador had not been informed of Mr. Hopkins’s conversations in Washington.) The Ambassador said that before his departure he had discussed this question with the President and Mr. Hopkins and was familiar with their general attitude on the subject. He went on to say that he felt that he could be of some assistance in expediting consideration of any urgent matters which would properly fall under Lend-Lease and that General Spalding was here for the same purpose to discuss with any of Mr. Mikoyan’s staff the most expeditious way of handling Soviet requests.

The Ambassador said he wished to speak on another subject, namely the question of whether in Mr. Mikoyan’s opinion there would be any possibility of Soviet vessels and American vessels turned over to the Soviet Government lying idle as a result of ice conditions in the Pacific this winter. He said that the United States shipping authorities consider that any attempt to utilize these ships on the Persian Gulf run would take them out of position, in view of the length of the voyage, for operation on the Pacific route in the spring. However, if the Soviet authorities found that they could not operate all these ships in the Pacific during the coming winter it might be well to discuss their possible utilization elsewhere in the common cause, but of course on short runs which would permit their return to the Pacific in the spring. The Ambassador added that the personal preference of the United States shipping authorities was that these ships be fully utilized in their present operations in the Pacific, but he was merely inquiring in order to make sure that no urgently needed shipping would lie idle.

Mr. Mikoyan replied emphatically that in his opinion there was no danger of any interruption or delays in navigation on the Pacific this winter. He pointed out that Vladivostok is kept free of ice all winter and that last year the only difficulties had been in the navigation of La Perouse Straits. Last year difficulties had been encountered because of the fact that the Soviet authorities had only two small ice breakers whereas this year they would have three large ice breakers (including one received from the United States) and two smaller ones, which in his opinion would without question assure uninterrupted navigation on the Pacific route.

Replying to the Ambassador’s inquiry Mr. Mikoyan said that he did not fear any interference by the Japanese in the future; that whereas several months ago two of their ships had been held by the Japanese for approximately two months, recently only one ship, the Novorossisk, had been held up for but a few hours with the most superficial examination of the ship. He went on to say that he believed the continuing victories of the Red Army were having a salutary effect on the Japanese in this respect. He promised to keep the Ambassador in touch with any developments in regard to this question.

The Ambassador then stated that he would be interested to ascertain the attitude of the Soviet Government toward UNRRA³⁶ and particularly as to how the Soviet Government envisaged the question of relief and rehabilitation as affecting the Soviet Union and its relationship to other possible channels for post-war assistance. Mr. Mikoyan replied that the Soviet Union was quite prepared to collaborate in the work of UNRRA and that a Soviet delegation was leaving the next day to participate in the conference. So far as he was aware there were no questions in regard to this matter in which there was disagreement.

The Ambassador explained that he had in mind three aspects of the general problem of post-war rehabilitation: (1) the general administrative set-up which would be considered at the UNRRA conference;³⁷ (2) the contribution of the various countries in this work; and (3) the receipt of war relief by the various countries needing it. Mr. Mikoyan replied that the Soviet Government had not yet reached the stage of considering the manner of receiving assistance. The Ambassador emphasized in this connection that the question of relief and future assistance was quite outside of the present operation of Lend-Lease.

The Ambassador then stated that it was possible that in future the United States would be in a position to increase its deliveries of aluminum to the Soviet Union and he wished to know in what form the Soviet Government would like to receive this aluminum, whether in ingots or only in fabricated form. Mr. Mikoyan said that they would be very glad indeed to receive increased aluminum supplies in any form but that ingots would be satisfactory since the Soviet aluminum rolling mills were not overcharged as only three of them had been in the actual war zone. The Ambassador suggested, and Mr. Mikoyan agreed, that General Spalding and Mr. Krutikov should work out the details of a definite request in regard to aluminum.

After mentioning that he was glad to have learned that the first shipment of locomotives was on its way to North Russia, the Ambassador turned to the suggestions for the transit of materiel to China via the Persian Gulf. Mr. Mikoyan stated that there were difficulties in the way of realization of this scheme and seemed indisposed to pursue the matter further.

Mr. Mikoyan then announced that five trawlers had arrived at North Russian ports safely and that six submarine chasers with Soviet crews had arrived via the Panama Canal and the Atlantic Ocean without loss.

The Ambassador then spoke of his intention to ask Mr. Molotov to arrange for General Vandenberg,³⁸ who was an air officer on General Arnold’s³⁹ staff, to visit advance fighter squadrons in order to ascertain what type of fighters would be most suitable for Soviet needs since, as Mr. Mikoyan was aware, the type and number of fighter aircraft to be delivered under the third protocol in the last six months of its operation were as yet undetermined. Mr. Mikoyan said he would do what he could to help in this matter.

The Ambassador then inquired whether the 40,000 tons of Italian merchant shipping which the Soviet Government had requested at the Conference⁴⁰ would be sufficient to cover Soviet shipping needs in the Black Sea. Mr. Mikoyan replied that it was hard to say. The losses had been heavy and the Soviet need in respect of shipping in the Black Sea was great. He added, however, that the Italian ships requested would be a help in meeting the situation. The Ambassador observed that he had merely wished to find out whether there were any urgent needs over and above the 40,000 tons requested of Italian shipping for the Black Sea, and that while he could not make any definite statement in regard to these Italian ships he knew it was receiving sympathetic consideration in Washington. He added that he felt that if and when the Dardanelles were opened up it might be well to have a preliminary idea of Soviet needs in general in the Black Sea. Mr. Mikoyan said that he would discuss the matter with the Soviet shipping authorities and would let the Ambassador know if they had any urgent requests apart from the Italian ships.

In conclusion the Ambassador reiterated his desire to be of any assistance in expediting consideration in Washington of any urgent Soviet requests and his willingness to discuss with Mr. Mikoyan at the latter’s convenience matters relating to post-war reconstruction in the Soviet Union.

34. W. Averell Harriman, who had arrived in Moscow in October 1943 to succeed Admiral Standley.
35. Konstantin Ignatyevich Lukashev, Vice Chairman of the Government Purchasing Commission of the Soviet Union in the United States.
36. The United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration (UNRRA), an international agency created by the signing of an agreement at the White House on November 9, 1943, by 44 United Nations and other nations associated with them in the war, to furnish aid and relief to areas liberated from the enemy by the armed forces of the United Nations; for correspondence leading to the signing of the agreement, see vol. i, pp. 851 ff.
37. The first conference of UNRRA was held in Atlantic City between November 9 and December 1, 1943. The Soviet Union was represented by Mikhail Alexeyevich Menshikov of the People’s Commissariat for Foreign Trade.
38. Brig. Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg, Deputy Chief of Air Staff, U.S. Army Air Forces.
39. Gen. Henry H. Arnold, Commanding General, U.S. Army Air Forces.
40. The Moscow Conference of Foreign Ministers.