Foreign Relations of the United States: Diplomatic Papers, 1942, Europe, Volume III

Memorandum of Conference Held at the White House, by Mr. Samuel H. Cross, Interpreter³⁸

Monday, June 1, 1942, 10:30 a.m.

V

Present:

The President, Mr. Molotov, Mr. Litvinov, Mr. Hopkins, Messrs. Pavlov and Cross

The President opened the conversation by remarking that the Washington press representatives knew about Mr. Molotov’s visit, but had been very decent about making no reference to it. He suggested that, after Mr. Molotov’s safe return to Moscow, the Soviet Government might simultaneously inform Messrs. Maisky and Litvinov of his arrival, and set an hour at which synchronised announcements of his visit might be released in London and Washington. Mr. Molotov accepted this suggestion.

On the basis of State Department memoranda, the President then went on to say he had a few points to mention, mostly for Mr. Litvinov’s attention. We had, the President continued, reports from Finland³⁹ that representative groups in that country wish to make peace with the Soviet Government. They could not, however, mobilize their strength to demonstrate to Finnish public opinion the possibility of peace unless something Concrete were done by Moscow or Washington. These groups had asked the United States to ascertain a possible basis for peace, and the United States Government would proffer its good offices for this purpose if the Soviet Government wished to avail itself of them.

In the whole of Monday morning’s conversation, Mr. Molotov was much more gruff and assertive than in the previous interviews, perhaps for the purpose of playing the big shot in Mr. Litvinov’s presence. In this case, at any rate, he immediately became terse and pressing. “I should like to know,” he asked, “whether these Finns are official” “No,” replied the President, “they are merely a number of leaders of public opinion, but not the Finnish Government.” “Do they want peace?” inquired Mr. Molotov. The President replied in the affirmative. “Have they any special conditions in view?” Mr. Molotov asked. “No,” said the President. “They express no desires as to the basis on which peace should be concluded?” “No,” answered the President, “what they want is to show the Finnish people that peace is possible with safety to Finland.” Mr. Molotov then inquired whether these groups were able to represent Finland. The President replied that our information was confined to the statement that several such representative private groups existed. Mr. Molotov then observed that he would discuss the matter with Mr. Stalin.

The President next observed that postal connections and official travel between Washington and Kuibyshev were slow and difficult. We were running a plane service as far as Basra which we would be disposed to extend as far as Teheran if the Soviets would send down a connecting plane to that point, perhaps once a week. Mr. Molotov replied without hesitation that his government would establish such a Kuibyshev–Teheran service, but at the start only once in two weeks. He directed Mr. Litvinov to carry on with the detailed arrangements.

The President then noted that, for substantially the same purpose, we should like to organize a civilian air service from Washington to Nome, and then continue on to some convenient point at the east end of the Transsiberian, e. g., Petropavlovsk. The President remarked that it was immaterial whether the American planes flew over to Petropavlovsk, or whether the Soviet sent their own planes over to Nome. He also raised the point of organizing a civilian ferrying service for military planes from Nome to Siberia. Admiral Standley had already talked on this subject to Mr. Stalin, who had said he would study the question. Mr. Molotov observed that both these suggestions were under advisement, but he did not as yet know what decision had been reached.

The President remarked that he wished Mr. Molotov would take up one other matter with Mr. Stalin. We knew, he said, that there would be two kinds of post-war settlements: first, those among the United Nations and, second, arrangements for the reconstruction of the other nations with a view to ensuring a more stable form of peace. The President continued by saying that he had a new thought based on old experience. He believed that, instead of requiring interest on wartime advances, all the United Nations should work out a plan covering a long-term repayment of capital only. He hoped Mr. Molotov would discuss the point with Mr. Stalin for the purpose of exploring it without commitments. Mr. Molotov agreed to do so. The President observed that some such arrangement would facilitate matters for Great Britain, the Soviet Union, and the United States, and also prove helpful for other nations.

(At this point Mr. Hopkins inquired of the President whether the latter cared to discuss his project for setting up a special post-war fund under international trusteeship. This question was hot translated to Mr. Molotov and thus did not figure in the discussion.)

On the President’s previous suggestion Mr. Molotov commented that he thought Mr. Stalin would be interested, and promised that the proposal would be attentively studied. Both he and Mr. Stalin thoroughly appreciated the role played by the United States in the initiation of such proposals.

The President then recalled that he had already developed his ideas about disarming Germany and Japan, about control and inspection of their munitions industries to preclude surreptitious rearmament, about the future police activities of the four major nations, and about their role as guarantors of eventual peace. He had omitted one other point: viz., that there were, all over the world, many islands and colonial possessions which ought, for our own safety, to be taken away from weak nations. He suggested that Mr. Stalin might profitably consider the establishment of some form of international trusteeship over these islands and possessions.

In reply Mr. Molotov declared that he had considered and reported to Moscow the President’s earlier proposals as to post-war organization. He had received an answer from Mr. Stalin, who was in full accord with the President’s ideas on disarmament, inspection, and policing with the participation of at least Great Britain, the United States, the Soviet Union, and possibly China. This idea had the full approval of the Soviet Government, which would support it fully. He had no doubt that the President’s trusteeship principle would be equally well received in Moscow.

The President then pointed out that the acceptance of this principle would mean the abandonment of the mandate system. For example, after the last war the Japanese had received a mandate over the previously German islands in the Pacific, which they had fortified. These islands were small, but they ought not to be given to any one nation. The Japanese should; of course, be removed, but we did not want these islands, and neither the British nor the French ought to have them either. Perhaps the same procedure should be applied to the islands now held by the British. The islands obviously ought not to belong to any one nation, and their economy was substantially the same everywhere. The easiest and most practical way to handle the problem of these islands over a long period would be to put them under an international committee of 3–5 members.

The President then inquired of Mr. Litvinov whether he was ready to abandon the League of Nations. “Anything for the common cause,” the Ambassador replied.

Turning to the question of colonial possessions, the President took as examples Indo-China, Siam, and the Malay States, or even the Dutch East Indies. The last-mentioned would some day be ready for self-government, and the Dutch know it. Each of these areas would I require a different lapse of time before achieving readiness for self-government, but a palpable surge toward independence was there just the same, and the white nations thus could not hope to hold these areas as colonies in the long run. Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek⁴¹ therefore had the idea that some form of interim international trusteeship would be the best mode of administering these territories until they were ready for self-government. They might, the President added, be ready for self-government in 20 years, during which the trustees might endeavor to accomplish what we accomplished in the Philippines in 42 years. The Generalissimo, then, was thinking of the principle of trusteeship looking toward independence. The President hoped Mr. Molotov would discuss this suggestion with Mr. Stalin.

The Commissar expressed the opinion that this problem deserves serious allied attention, and it would certainly receive such attention in the U. S. S. R. For him it was obvious that any decision upon it would depend on the guarantees exercised by Great Britain, the Soviet Union, and the United States (with China, perhaps), coupled with such control functions as would prevent Germany and Japan from arming again to menace other nations with war. Starting from this principle, Mr. Molotov expressed his conviction that the President’s proposals could be effectively worked out. The President said he expected no difficulties once peace was achieved.

The President then interjected that he had to entertain the Duke and Duchess of Windsor at lunch at twelve, but that he had one more point to discuss. Mr. Molotov also noted that he had another question to present.

The President then went on to say that on the previous day he had discussed questions of tonnage and shipping with the Chiefs of Staff. Every week we were building up troop and plane concentrations in England with a view to getting at the Germans from there as quickly as possible.

We were also shipping landing craft. But the time-element involved depended on available ships. We hoped and expected to open a second front in 1942, but we could progress more rapidly only with more ships. The Chiefs of Staff had therefore suggested that, in order to speed up the opening of the second front, the Soviet Government, with this in mind, should reconsider the lease-lend list previously submitted, remembering that, of the 4,100,000 tons which were to be shipped during the year from July 1, 1942, only 1,800,000 tons are matériel ready to be used for military purposes on the Russian front this summer.⁴² The rest was mostly raw matérials and other items for the production of materiel which would not be ready for use this summer. 2,300,000 tons, in fact, represented items that would not be used for fighting at all. The President therefore proposed that the Soviet Government consider reducing its lease-lend requirements from 4,100,000 tons to 2,000,000 tons. This reduction would release a large number of ships that we could divert to shipping to England munitions and equipment for the second front, and thus speed up the establishment of that front. Mr. Hopkins further emphasized that there would be no cut in the volume of tanks and ammunition being shipped. Everything that the Red Army could use in actual fighting would still go forward.

Mr. Molotov replied that, while he would report this suggestion at home, he hoped that such non-military supplies as metals and railroad matériel, which have a direct bearing on the solidity of the present front, would not be cut too much, as they also were in large degree essential. In checking over the lease-lend list, his Government would have to reckon with the degree in which any reduction on non-military items would impose restrictions on the Russian rear, e. g., on electric plants, railroads, and machinery production. These were, after all, comparatively vital, and he hoped these needs would not be lost from view. He remarked again that he had a couple of points for discussion.

The President repeated that we expected to set up a second front in 1942, but that every ship we could shift to the English run meant that the second front was so much the closer to being realized. After all, ships could not be in two places at once, and hence every ton we could save out of the total of 4,100,000 tons would be so much to the good. The Soviets could not eat their cake and have it too.

To this statement Mr. Molotov retorted with some emphasis that the second front would be stronger if the first front still stood fast, and inquired with what seemed deliberate sarcasm what would happen if the Soviets cut down their requirements and then no second front eventuated. Then, becoming still more insistent, he emphasized that he had brought the new treaty out of England. “What answer,” he asked, “shall I take back to London and Moscow on the general question that has been raised? What is the President’s answer with respect to the second front?”

To this direct question the President answered that Mr. Molotov could say in London that, after all, the British were even now in personal consultation with our staff officers on questions of landing craft, food, etc. We expected to establish a second front. General Arnold⁴³ would arrive next day (Tuesday, June 2) from London, and with him Lord Mountbatten,⁴⁴ Marshal Portal,⁴⁵ and General Little,⁴⁶ with, whom it was planned to arrive at an agreement on the creation of a second front. Mr. Molotov should also say in London that we could proceed toward its creation with the more speed if the Soviet Government would make it possible for us to put more ships into the English service. Mr. Molotov, the President observed, [would] be back from New York either Tuesday or Wednesday (June 2 or 3). After General Arnold had reported to General Marshall, the President hoped Mr. Molotov would discuss further arrangements with General Marshall.

The conversation thus ended with decreased tension on the Russian side. The President bade Mr. Molotov a cordial farewell, wished him a safe return home, and presented the Commissar with his photograph. The meeting broke up at about 12:10 p.m.

38. Copy obtained from the Franklin D. Roosevelt Library, Hyde Park, N. Y.
39. For correspondence concerning United States interest in the relations between Finland and the Soviet Union, and its attempts to prevent Finnish participation in the war against the Soviet Union in association with Germany, see vol. ii , section on Finland.
41. President of the Chinese Executive Yuan (Premier).
42. See the letter of May 29; which had been handed by President Roosevelt to Molotov, p. 706.
43. Lt. Gen. Henry H. Arnold, Commanding General, U. S: Army Air Forces.
44. Adm. Lord Louis Mountbatten, British Chief of Combined Operations.
45. Air Chief Marshal Sir Charles Portal, British-Chief of the Air Staff.
46. It may be that the person intended is Oliver Lyttelton, British Minister of Production.