711.62/176½
Memorandum of Conversation, by the Acting Secretary of State
The German Chargé d’Affaires called upon me this morning by instruction of his Government. Dr. Thomsen stated that his Government desired him to make a formal protest to this Government with regard to an address made in Cleveland last Sunday night14 by Secretary Ickes which was construed by the German Government as a deliberate attack upon the head of the German state by an official member of the Cabinet of the President of the United States. The German Government desired Dr. Thomsen to say that they trusted that the Government of the United States would make public an official expression of regret for the statements made by Secretary Ickes. Dr. Thomsen was instructed to communicate to his Government the reply which I made in the matter.
I stated to Dr. Thomsen that I was unwilling to accept the protest made by the German Government. I said that while I had not read the full text of Secretary Ickes’ speech, I had read detailed summaries which had appeared in the press and which I assumed were accurate. I said that there were two phases of the Secretary’s speech as I understood it, the first dealing with a criticism on the part of Secretary Ickes of two American citizens because of their acceptance of decorations from the German Government. I said that with regard to a purely domestic question such as the action of two American citizens and the criticism of such action by an American official, I would not agree to discuss such a purely domestic question with the representative of a foreign government. With regard to criticisms of the policies pursued by the German Government or by officials of the German Government which may have been contained or which may have been implicit in Secretary Ickes’ speech, I said that Dr. Thomsen and his Government must surely be familiar with the fact that the recent policies pursued in Germany had shocked and confounded public opinion in the United States more profoundly than anything which had taken place in many decades and that such references to this state of public indignation as may have been made by Secretary Ickes certainly represented the feeling of 99½ per cent of the population of the United States.
[Page 452]I said, however, that it seemed to me that the desire of the German Government to make a protest of this character came with singularly ill-grace. I said that during the past few months I had followed carefully the German press, which I was sure Dr. Thomsen could hardly dispute was completely under the influence and subject to the dictation of the authorities of the German Government, and that I had never read more altogether unjustifiable or shocking criticisms of the members of another government than those which had been made during these recent weeks in the German press against the President and against the members of his Cabinet. I said that so long as attacks of this kind persisted which were unquestionably responsive to the desires of the German authorities, I could not conceive of there being any propriety in a protest on the part of the German Government against a speech of the character made by Mr. Ickes.
Dr. Thomsen stated that he did not consider that criticisms published in the German press were similar to criticisms of the head of the German state made by a member of the Cabinet of the United States. He said that the German press was free to publish what it desired and that only if articles published were considered objectionable by the German authorities was any action taken against the author of such publications.
I stated that on this point the opinion expressed by Dr. Thomsen was certainly at variance with the opinion of the rest of the world since it was notorious that the highest officials of the German Government controlled certain of the newspapers published in Berlin to which I had referred, but more than that, I said, from Dr. Thomsen’s own statement, since he had admitted that the German Government could prevent the publication of objectionable articles, the persistent publication over a period of many months of articles in the highest degree offensive with regard to the President of the United States and to members of his Government was convincing proof that the German authorities had desired the publication of this kind of attack upon the Government of the United States.
Dr. Thomsen then stated that even if this were the case, there was a material difference since the articles to which I had referred were attacks upon members of the Cabinet of the United States, and the speech of Secretary Ickes had been a criticism of the head of the German state.
I then stated to Dr. Thomsen that only a few weeks ago I myself heard the Chancellor of Germany, speaking on the radio, make the most offensive and derogatory remarks with regard to the late President Wilson. I stated that Dr. Thomsen should realize that while Woodrow Wilson was dead, his memory was revered by the people of the United States and that this attack by the Chancellor of Germany [Page 453] upon the late President of the United States had been deeply resented in this country.
I concluded the interview by saying that while I personally believed that public recrimination in any country against another country was essentially harmful to a peaceful world and to the good relations between peoples, nevertheless, so long as the kind of attack against members of the United States Government which had been continuing for so long a period persisted in Germany, the German Government could hardly suppose that attacks of the same character would not continue in the United States.
I said to Dr. Thomsen that I should prefer to make no public comment with regard to our conversation, but that if the German Government made public the fact that it had protested against Secretary Ickes’ speech, I should feel compelled to make public likewise the tenor of my reply.15
Dr. Thomsen said that he would communicate with his Government and advise me further.