Foreign Relations of the United States, Diplomatic Papers, 1932, The Far East, Volume III

793.94/4696½

Memorandum of Trans-Atlantic Telephone Conversation⁹²

March 11, 1932, 4:45 p.m.

Mr. Wilson: Hello, Mr. Secretary.

Secretary: Hello, Wilson. I have just gotten your resolution and have read it and it seems to be a very good one. I am very much gratified over it. I shall communicate with Simon as you suggested in one of your cables.

Mr. Wilson: Yes, I understand, Mr. Secretary. Have you got the telegram in which I sent Drummond’s letter?

Secretary: Yes, I have that.

Mr. Wilson: We prepared a tentative offer to submit for your approval.

Secretary: Wait a minute. First, I want to know what is the right language in the last line of that letter. The words read “in which the Assembly addresses a request to the powers members of the League of Nations which have such special interests.” Is that right?

Mr. Wilson: Yes, Sir.

Secretary: That does not include the United States.

Mr. Wilson: No, it does not because they did not want to put us in a resolution of the League.

Secretary: I ask that question simply because a newspaper report had put in the word “and” between “powers” and “members”. The newspapers included us.

Mr. Wilson: That is a mistake.

Secretary: Yes, I see, so that this letter of Drummond does not, and the resolution in it on terms does not, demand an answer.

Mr. Wilson: No, Sir. It does not, Mr. Secretary, but this evening, in addition to what Drummond said, Simon said he hoped we could see our way to make an answer if possible.

Secretary: What kind of an answer have they in mind?

Mr. Wilson: We had in mind something like this:

“With reference to your letter of today’s date in which you were good enough to transmit to me a copy of the resolution adopted in the Assembly this afternoon and in which you invite the attention of my Government, particularly of part two thereof, you will recall that my Government, as I informed you on March 5, is cooperating with the other powers under the resolution of March 4th, and is now instructing its representatives in Shanghai to cooperate if necessary in the sense of today’s resolution.”

Secretary: Now, what would that mean?

Mr. Wilson: It means that if they find it necessary in negotiating on the spot to utilize neutral forces to protect the withdrawal of the Japanese forces, we are willing to cooperate.

Secretary: I would like to think that over. I want to know what the situation is. You realize that the people on the spot so far, not only our military people, but some of the others, have rather advised against that.

Mr. Wilson: No, I did not realize that.

Secretary: So I think it better be thought over a little more. We had better not hurry. We will continue our cooperation, but I would rather not pledge specifically that action right now.

Mr. Wilson: Mr. Secretary, we thought of another paragraph which I might read to you to complete the note.

“My Government is gratified that the nations of the world are now united on a policy of non-recognition of the validity of the results of acts of force in violation of treaties. This is a distinct contribution to international law and a constructive basis for peace.”

Secretary: Yes. Have you anything further?

Mr. Wilson: No, that is the end. If you will think the thing over perhaps you could send me a telegram after considering it.

Secretary: They seem to be in a great deal of a hurry. You see I have just received these papers and I have been a little more out of it than you have.

Mr. Wilson: Yes, of course, I understand.

Secretary: We will cooperate, of course, and the only question is the exact method of cooperation in respect to that one problem of the policing of that zone. Have you any assurance that the Japanese are going to withdraw so that there won’t be any zone?

Mr. Wilson: There was a statement made by Sato that the Army had received already orders to withdraw to certain geographical positions. I can’t give you the names of these geographical positions.

Secretary: Have you any assurance as to the attitude of the Chinese in respect to that zone?

Mr. Wilson: No, Sir.

Secretary: I mean we would have to be careful in assuming any position which might be resented by the Chinese connected with negotiations on the spot.

Mr. Wilson: Mr. Secretary, I have talked with Yen and he seemed to understand that there would have to be some form of neutral protection for the retreating of Japanese forces.

Secretary: Yes, I think that is so, but don’t you see I don’t want to make any commitment as to what we would do—what form of protection we would agree to share in until I know more about what is going to be the problem.

Mr. Wilson: I will take no action until I receive instructions from you as to what form of letter to send.

Secretary: Yes. Now, Wilson, you may assure them, generally and verbally, of our cooperation and of our gratification of what has been done.

Mr. Wilson: Yes, I will do that.

Secretary: And we will probably make some public statement here of our gratification.

Mr. Wilson: If you make such a public statement, could you send me a copy to transmit to Drummond?

Secretary: Yes, but I think there are a number of steps we must take here and we must have time for a little consultation so that I don’t want to do this in a hurry.

Mr. Wilson: May I bring up one further thought in connection with the use of troops to protect the retreat. That would be according to the decisions of the negotiations in Shanghai and, of course, if our Minister vetoed it our troops would not be used.

Secretary: Not necessarily, he would not have a complete veto on our decision here in Washington, but we should consider very carefully his recommendation and the others will probably feel the same way, Wilson. I mean the British, French and the Italians. In other words, I think that we must wait until those people there have reached some recommendation on those subjects. At present we do not know for sure that the Japanese are going to withdraw; we do not know for sure what the Chinese are going to do and I see no way for us to receive assurance except from the conference of the Ministers in Shanghai. I do not think that you can rely too implicitly upon what Yen tells you on that subject about the attitude of the Chinese Government.

Mr. Wilson: I agree. Yen has no instructions yet.

Secretary: I feel equally certain that you cannot rely too implicitly upon what Sato says on the attitude of the Japanese Government or rather the Japanese Commanders, so I think that those subjects will have to wait until they are discussed at Shanghai.

Mr. Wilson: All right, I understand.

[Here follows discussion on a different subject.]

Secretary: Let me ask you one thing more. When do you think that Drummond wants a reply to this letter? We must think it over and take time.

Mr. Wilson: You must think it over and take your time but we want it fairly soon on account of the press.

Secretary: If I send it tonight or tomorrow it will be all right, won’t it?

Mr. Wilson: Yes, Sir. Thank you very much. I guess that is all then.

Secretary: Goodnight.

92. Between Mr. Stimson in Washington and Mr. Wilson in Geneva, March 11, 1932, 4:45 p.m.