793.94/4542½
Memorandum of Trans-Atlantic Telephone Conversation32
Secretary: Hello, who is this?
Mr. Wilson: This is Wilson speaking.
Secretary: Wilson, I wanted to find out what the situation is in Geneva just at present in regard to our proposed non-recognition policy being adopted by the Assembly.
Mr. Wilson: What happened today, Mr. Secretary, was this. The Constitutional [Special?] Assembly elected Hymans, the Prime Minister of Belgium, as President. They they [then?] called on Yen to make a statement. His statement lasted about an hour. Matsudaira then replied for forty minutes. They then voted to turn the Assembly into a general commission of the Assembly which will meet tomorrow afternoon at three o’clock.33 I have found no opposition to your idea that they must make a declaration in the sense that you state. In fact, everybody seems agreed and [that?] that is the minimum that the Assembly must do. We keep working on that problem and to everyone who talks to us we speak of the necessity and possibility of establishing that principle of law—that recognition of anything accomplished by force in violation of the treaties must not be admitted.
Secretary: I see. Hugh, that is very important and it has been brought up again by some very unpleasant press articles coming from London indicating that some influential members of the British Government, and this one this morning was a statement of the Under Secretary of Foreign Affairs in the House of Commons that he did not intend to follow that policy and so I want to know what attitude Great Britain has been taking in the Assembly.
Mr. Wilson: Sir John Simon has not yet spoken. I must say that the attitude of Sir John is a little bit suspicious to up. I am trying to see him tomorrow morning and I am going to remind him of the conversation which I had with him before I telephoned you a few days ago.
[Page 502]Secretary: Now, I have one further thing to say that may have bearing. Until that is clear I don’t intend to take part in these conferences in Shanghai. The situation there, as I understand it, has been such that the action of Japan in going ahead with the major offensive after she had accepted the proposition of the League of Nations in which we had joined has so altered the situation that I want very much to go slow before I commit myself to any further step.
Mr. Wilson: I think you are very wise, Mr. Secretary. I like that. I will see that Simon understands that.
Secretary: And I would like to know that Simon understands that.
Mr. Wilson: I will see that he does.
Secretary: I have done everything that I could to help them so far in their major interest, which is Shanghai, but I don’t intend to get involved in a situation which may appear to the Chinese to be backing up the interests of Japan and other foreign powers against legitimate Chinese interests. I don’t intend to do this at all and I don’t intend to get committed in these conferences until I am sure no such move is intended and I am also, of course, interested in the attitude of the Assembly. I don’t intend or mean to be dragged into a position where I have to go in and deliver my goods until I see what I am going to get in return. Is that clear?
Mr. Wilson: Yes, very clear and I like it very much, Mr. Secretary. I think that is an excellent thing and it puts us in a good position to say that.
Secretary: We have played perfectly clearly and, so far as the League of Nations is concerned, we have put our cards on the table and we have made our position perfectly clear and I think it is a cooperative position and I don’t think anyone can criticize it, but there have been other elements of confusion introduced by other nations into this situation which are not our fault, and I should like to go a little slow.
Mr. Wilson: I shall take great pleasure in conveying these facts; it will give me great satisfaction.
Secretary: Be careful—I don’t want to have any threatening done. It is only a policy of wisdom.
Mr. Wilson: Would you want to speak to Gibson too?
Secretary: I did want to ask this. In respect to the cable No. 55, which Gibson sent me,34 you remember it about the plans for some speeches at the Disarmament Conference on this subject.
Mr. Wilson: Yes.
Secretary: I don’t quite understand when that is likely to come up.
Mr. Wilson: We don’t know, Mr. Secretary. It all depends upon [Page 503] how continuous the efforts of the Assembly are. In a day or two they will probably call the General Commission.
Secretary: I can see some danger in that program which Gibson outlined to me coming on before the Assembly is committed to this nonrecognition plan.
Mr. Wilson: I think so too.
Secretary: Because it might be used to sidetrack that subject over into the Disarmament Conference where it would not have any real effect instead of taking place in the League of Nations.
Mr. Wilson: We will bear that in mind, Mr. Secretary.
Secretary: I think that should be very carefully put in Gibson’s mind before he makes the speech that he proposed in his telegram No. 55.
Mr. Wilson: He is listening now and he will bear that in mind.
Secretary: His proposed statement there would seem to push that program in the Disarmament Conference along a little faster. It would seem to push it too fast and I think if he said anything at all he should not say it until we are sure of what goes on in the Assembly.
Mr. Wilson: Yes, I understand.
Secretary: Or if he has to say it before anything comes on the Assembly he should have some very cautionary remarks. I don’t think he ought to commit himself unqualifiedly in the Disarmament Conference—what I mean is it does not amount to anything at all unless the nations of the world are committed to it.
Mr. Wilson: Right.
Secretary: Even the language of the resolution which was adopted by the Council35 was extremely wishy-washy.
Mr. Wilson: Yes, it was very weak.
Secretary: It was very weak and I don’t know whether you saw the statement which William Hard made over the radio the other night. He pointed out very forcibly the difference between the language which they used and the language which we used.
Mr. Wilson: No, I haven’t seen it.
Secretary: I wish you would see Hard and cable me the full language of his statement. It is not here in print at all. I happened to hear it over the radio. I wish you would cable it to me because it would be very useful here. That is the line which I think Gibson will have to have in mind if this thing comes up. I would rather not have it come up at all until it is settled in the Assembly, and if it does come up I think he ought to see that nothing in the Conference ought to be done to off-set the work of the Assembly on that point.
Mr. Wilson: Certainly.
[Page 504]Secretary: I talked with the President this morning about it and he thinks we ought to really try to do our best to get a forward movement in that.
Mr. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Secretary. The Turkish Delegate is quite ready, I think, to follow our advice in this connection.
Secretary: I am very glad to have his speech if it were made in the Assembly.
Mr. Wilson: He is not a member, of course.
Secretary: That is true, he is not a member. I would be very glad to have it wherever he does make it, but I don’t want to have it in a way which would sidetrack it. In regard to Gibson’s speech, I am a little worried about that situation in the Disarmament Conference. I would really rather have it held back altogether rather than before the Assembly has to face that problem.
Mr. Wilson: I think we can hold it back entirely until the Assembly has acted.
Secretary: All right, that is the main thing.
Mr. Wilson: All right, Mr. Secretary.
Secretary: Give my affectionate regards to Gibson and that is all I had to say about it. Good-bye.
- Between Mr. Stimson in Washington and Mr. Wilson in Geneva, March 3, 1932, 3:50 p.m.↩
- For minutes of the meetings of March 3, see League of Nations, Official Journal, Special Supplement No. 101, vol. i, pp. 19–37.↩
- Dated March 2, 10 p.m., not printed.↩
- See telegram No. 92, February 29, 7 p.m., from the Consul at Geneva, p. 479.↩