Foreign Relations of the United States Diplomatic Papers, 1932, The Far East, Volume III

793.94/4446½

Memorandum of Trans-Atlantic Telephone Conversation¹²

February 27, 1932, 12:50 p.m.

Mr. Wilson: Hello, Mr. Secretary Simon asked me to call this afternoon. He has seen Matsudaira twice today. Matsudaira talked to him along the same lines that he talked to Gibson and Davis. You remember those telegrams?

Secretary: Yes, I remember them.

Mr. Wilson: Simon has a strong impression that the Japanese would like to have a cessation of hostilities suggested. Simon feels it is the time for successful intervention.

Secretary: I don’t get that. You mean the time is ripe?

Mr. Wilson: Yes, he thinks the time is ripe and that it is the essence of successful intervention and that the occasion when the maximum pressure be put on Japan is within the next two or three days before the Assembly meets on Thursday. Sir John suggests he might write an identic letter to Matsudaira to express willingness, to tender good offices in order to stop further fighting. He is [has?] immediately in prospect to bring about a return to peaceful conditions in the Shanghai area. The proposed basis would be as follows:

1. An immediate cessation of hostilities consolidated by arrangements made between the Commanders in consultation with the military and naval authorities of the other principal powers represented in Shanghai who would render more possible assistance.

2. A declaration by Japan that she has no political territorial desires in the Shanghai region and no intention of establishing a Japanese Settlement in Shanghai or of otherwise advancing the exclusive interests of the Japanese.

3. A declaration by China that she would enter the negotiations on the basis that the International Settlement must be preserved intact under arrangements which will secure the Settlement area and its residents from future dangers.

Secretary: Well, what does that mean?

Mr. Wilson: It means that the Japanese are apparently afraid of the Communistic sentiment of the Nineteenth Army—the Cantonese Army.

Secretary: Well, it means virtually a neutral area around the Settlement.

Mr. Wilson: No, Sir, I don’t think so because the Japanese have sent a new note to the League of Nations in which they disclaim any intention of establishing a neutral area.

Secretary: Yes, I see.

Mr. Wilson: Mr. Secretary, Sir John wants to continue.

Secretary: Is this you speaking or Sir John?

Mr. Wilson: Sir John. —“I have consulted the powers deeply interested in the International Settlement and I am authorized to say that they will be prepared to associate themselves in this effort to secure the cessation of fighting and the holding of a conference on the basis and with the object above stated.”

Mr. Wilson: Now, I am speaking again, Mr. Secretary. We have considered this here and we think that the final paragraph would be much more forcible if we could simply add to Sir John’s letter something in the following sense:

“The Governments of the United States, France and Italy, associate themselves with Great Britain in the proposal submitted for securing the cessation of fighting and the holding of a conference on the basis and with the objects therein stated.” That is the end. That is to be signed by the representatives of the three powers.

Secretary: What exactly is that conference to cover?

Mr. Wilson: Mr. Secretary, it is not very clear exactly what the conference will cover but it will cover fully bringing peace to Shanghai.

Secretary: It only relates to Shanghai?

Mr. Wilson: Yes, Sir, I think so.

Secretary: That is the point I want to be careful about. I don’t want any commitments about Manchuria.

Mr. Wilson: There are not any. Sir John’s idea is to take care only of the immediate situation at Shanghai.

Secretary: I am willing provided it does not deal with the other because we don’t intend to give up that.

Mr. Wilson: Righto, I will make that clear to Sir John.

Secretary: Because we don’t intend to give that up.

Mr. Wilson: We could arrange with Sir John to put in the last paragraph that this was no precedent or commitment—that nothing is to be done with the Manchurian affair.

Secretary: The fact that this does not include Manchuria is not to be taken as any precedent against the full treatment of that hereafter. Don’t you think so, Rogers?

Mr. Rogers: Yes, I was wondering whether we couldn’t say that the powers still maintain the position taken in the previous note, or something like that.

Secretary: Tell Wilson that.

Mr. Rogers: Hello, Wilson, this is Rogers. I was thinking if the note could be framed in such a way that the position taken in the previous offer of good offices was still preserved by the powers in which they insisted on international conference as the settlement of the whole Oriental difficulty.

Mr. Wilson: Would you make that a condition to Japan?

Secretary: No, simply a statement that nothing that they do here is to be taken as any waiver of the position heretofore taken by them.

Mr. Wilson: Mr. Secretary, do you like the alternative suggestion we made?

Secretary: Well, which alternative, you mean the last paragraph—what does that take the place of, I don’t quite understand.

Mr. Wilson: It is merely a message. In Sir John’s suggestion he signs the letter saying that he is authorized by the other Governments to say that they associate themselves. In our suggestion we propose that Sir John sign his letter [and?] that the other three nations add to it a declaration that they associate themselves.

Secretary: Well, if they do that I want to be darn sure that that sentence about Manchuria is either in Sir John’s letter or ours jointly.

Mr. Wilson: Yes. I will, of course, call you again when I speak with Sir John on this.

Secretary: Now, Wilson, I am not so sanguine as Sir John that this really means anything—that it will be effective.

Mr. Wilson: Mr. Secretary, Matsudaira has again cabled his Government and asked for the answer of Japan tomorrow—an intimation as to whether it would be agreeable and this intimation will come before we send the letter.

Secretary: Well, we want to get their intimation first.

Mr. Wilson: Make it contingent upon such a thing, if you so desire.

Secretary: Yes, I think we ought to have a distinct intimation from Japan before we send any such letter as this.

Mr. Wilson: There has been some intimation.

Secretary: Here is the point. I don’t think either Matsudaira or Debuchi have sufficient influence with their Government and Debuchi has been saying a little of the same thing to me but it has been personal. I think their Government is perhaps behind them but I have my doubts, and I would like to have the intimation made by Japan. Did you get that, Wilson?

Mr. Wilson: Yes, I got it.

Secretary: We are getting these intimations but we are not at all sure that they are from the Government. They may be simply an alarm on the Japanese abroad. I think Sir John had better have a pretty distinct intimation before he sends any such proposition. We have made one proposition and it has been rebuffed.

Mr. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Secretary, but I think you will find that Matsudaira has more influence in Japan than some others.

Secretary: He hasn’t any too much.

Mr. Wilson: I will talk to Sir John again and say that the United States will await the intimation from Matsudaira before any action is taken. You will be consulted before any action is taken.

Secretary: Yes, all right. I think this is hopeful. Debuchi has been here just now¹³ with something rather similar but it has been wholly personal and I would like to know that it is hitched up with the Government. We have made a suggestion and it has been knocked down and the two things that I want are a distinct intimation that our good offices are welcome and, second, that they don’t ask us to waive that position that we took before relating to Manchuria and relating to the nature of the negotiations between China and Japan. You remember when we suggested neutral observers, otherwise it may be just that they are getting all they want. If they get an admission of that they would be. Now we are not prepared to give that up.

Mr. Wilson: Yes, Mr. Secretary, I understand thoroughly.

[Here follows conversation on a purely personal matter.]

Secretary: … How is everything going over there. Have there been any further repercussions about the Borah letter?

Mr. Wilson: I have yet to see anybody who isn’t delighted with it.

Secretary: It has not done any harm, I hope?

Mr. Wilson: On the contrary. The newspapers say it is a splendid piece of work.

Secretary: All right, good-night.

12. Between Mr. Stimson in Washington and Mr. Wilson in Geneva, February 27, 1932, 12:50 p.m.
13. See memorandum of conversation, February 27, 1932, Foreign Relations, Japan, 1931–1941, vol. i, p. 201.