793.003/376
Memorandum by the Chief of the Division of Fax Eastern Affairs (Hornbeck) of a Conversation Between the Secretary of State and the Chinese Minister (C. C. Wu)
The Chinese Minister had apparently reported to the Secretary upon the conversation which the Minister had had with Mr. Hornbeck on June 10, in the course of which Mr. Hornbeck had informed the Minister that the Department had been working for some time on a new draft but was not yet ready to submit anything as a proposal for the Minister’s consideration, that the subject was still being [Page 452] studied, that the Department was conferring with Mr. Johnson, and that it might be some time before we would be in position to make any new move in the conversations between the Minister and Mr. Hornbeck.
Dr. Wu had apparently proposed to the Secretary that conversations be resumed at an early date.
In the conversation which ensued, the Secretary explained to Dr. Wu that he had not been in position for some time to give the question of these negotiations careful thought and that he hoped soon, when questions with which he was now occupied were out of the way, to go on a vacation. He said that we were conferring with Mr. Johnson and that we found it desirable to know what the other powers most concerned were doing about the question. He said that we were working on a problem with regard to which there was common interest and that we had to study it as such. We had no territorial holdings or special interest in China but in a place like Shanghai we were in a situation where the problem before others was also the problem before us. We had perhaps undertaken earlier to go ahead more rapidly than the nature of the problem warranted.
Dr. Wu asked whether the conversations between himself and Mr. Hornbeck might not continue. The Secretary inquired of Mr. Hornbeck what had been done in conversations between Dr. Wu and Mr. Hornbeck in the Secretary’s absence. Mr. Hornbeck stated that a tentative draft of a portion of a plan, for study, had been put before the Minister in January44 and that, upon the eve of the Minister’s departure for The Hague in March, that document had been scrapped; that subsequently the Department had worked on a new draft,45 the draft which Mr. Hornbeck had submitted to the Secretary some little while ago and which was now on the table. Dr. Wu asked whether this draft might not be given to him and be made the subject of discussion. Mr. Hornbeck said that the only thing which it would seem possible for him to submit at this time would be a collection of all the ideas which had at any time been discussed. He said that Dr. Wu had rejected various things which had been submitted and that the Department was not yet ready to come forward with anything so definite as to warrant its being made the basis for a new start. Dr. Wu said that he and Mr. Hornbeck might at least talk about the whole subject. Mr. Hornbeck said that there could be adopted very readily a new starting point, namely, that he remained ready, as at all times since the conversations began, to discuss any proposal or proposals which the Minister might wish to submit. The Secretary inquired whether Dr. Wu had at any time submitted proposals. Mr. [Page 453] Hornbeck said that he had—upon one occasion.46 The Secretary remarked that he believed the proposal referred to had been a proposal that extraterritoriality be abolished. Dr. Wu assented.
The conversation continued for some time, the Chinese Minister pressing for an assurance on the part of the Secretary that attention would be given the matter in the near future or that the conversations would be resumed. The Secretary said that he would talk with Mr. Hornbeck later on the subject. The Secretary said that he must excuse himself as he had another engagement elsewhere in a few moments and as he had said all that he was in position to say just now on this subject.