Paris Peace Conf. 180.03401/132
IC–178A
Notes of a Meeting Held at President Wilson’s House in the Place des Etats-Unis, Paris, on Wednesday, April 30, 1919, at 4 p.m.
- Present
- United States of America
- President Wilson.
- British Empire
- The Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd George, M. P.
- France
- M. Clemenceau.
- United States of America
| Secretary | Sir Maurice Hankey, K. C. B. |
| Interpreter | Prof. P. J. Mantoux. |
(1) Credentials of the German Delegates Mr. Lloyd George said that he had learnt that at the Meeting of Foreign Ministers, Mr. Lansing had made a very powerful statement,1 in which he had said that the German Constitution provided that the Central Government had full powers to make peace and war.
M. Clemenceau said that had not been the case in 1871.
President Wilson said it was a long time since he had studied Constitutional history, but he felt fairly sure that the Constitution of the German Empire had been drawn up since 1871, and that in it had been included the powers of making peace and war.
M. Clemenceau said that great care ought to be exercised lest we should make a peace, and find a few minutes after that the German States had not accepted it.
(2) The Peace With Austria Mr. Lloyd George proposed that during the following week while the German Delegates were studying the peace treaty, the Supreme Council should study the question and get with a general idea of the line they were going to take in regard to the re-arrangement of the old Austrian-Hungarian Empire. He proposed that in the following week the Delegates of Austria and Hungary should be invited to Paris.
President Wilson agreed.
M. Clemenceau agreed.
Sir Maurice Hankey asked who would be responsible for sending the invitation.
Mr. Lloyd George said that in case of the Germans, Marshal Foch had sent the invitation. Consequently, if the Italians had still been in the Conference, it would have been General Diaz’s duty.
[Page 369]Sir Maurice Hankey said, as he was the only official present he thought he ought to put the point of view of the officials. The Drafting Committee was so overworked in bringing out the German Treaty that he felt confident they could not possibly prepare the Austrian Treaty in so short a time.
President Wilson said that it was only proposed to discuss the lines of the Treaty with the Austrians. It would not be necessary to present them with a complete Treaty. He pointed out that the Hungarian de facto Government was hardly more than a local Government. By inviting them we should run the risk of our publics regarding them as a people in close intercourse with the Russian Soviets.
Mr. Lloyd George said they had committed no atrocities. He was reminded, however, by Sir Maurice Hankey of a recent telegram to the effect that 200 Bourgeois had been killed in Buda Pest, though he could not vouch for its truth.
President Wilson said that many people had been rather alarmed at General Smuts’ visit. He thought that the boundaries could be determined without consulting the Hungarians. They would not be on quite the same footing as the Austrians.
M. Clemenceau asked what was to be done with the Austrians and Hungarians after their views had been heard? Were they to be left free to move about in Paris? Meanwhile, the Germans might give a good deal of work.
President Wilson suggested that the Austrians and Hungarians should be sent somewhere outside Paris. For example, Fontainebleau.
M. Clemenceau said Chantilly would be the best place.
President Wilson agreed that this would be more prudent than Paris. He said that the immediate object of this proposal was the moral effect that would be produced on the Austrian people by inviting their representatives for consultation. He read a letter from his four colleagues on the American Delegation urging this course.
Mr. Lloyd George urged that there should be no differentiation between Austrians and Hungarians. He did not see why because the Hungarians were called the Soviet they should not be met. A workmen’s Government had just as much right to be dealt with as any other.
M. Clemenceau suggested that as the Hungarians and Austrians were somewhat hostile to one another, it would be necessary to house them separately.
(It was agreed that M. Clemenceau, as President of the Preliminary Peace Conference, should invite the representatives of the Austrian and Hungarian Governments to come to Chantilly on May 12th.)
[Page 370](3) Russia There was a short discussion in regard to the position in North Russia, in the course of which Mr. Lloyd George suggested that he and his colleagues should see Mr. Tchaikowski, the head of the Archangel Government, who was very hopeful that the Russians at Archangel might, by their own efforts, establish contact with General Kolchak.2 His information in regard to the Bolsheviks did not correspond with that in the possession of the French Government. He undertook to distribute a memorandum prepared by the British Intelligence Department in regard to the situation in Russia. He suggested that a similar document should be prepared by the French and the United States Military Departments.
President Wilson said he thought little good would be served by seeing Mr. Tchaikowski. His views had been received by telegram. The United States only had one regiment at Archangel, and United States public opinion would not tolerate sending any more troops.
Mr. Lloyd George said that the British Government had called for volunteers, and had received more offers than they could accept. The lists had had to be closed because they were full.
President Wilson thought perhaps experts might hear Mr. Tchaikowski’s views.
(It was agreed that as the basis for discussion, the United States, British and French Military Departments should prepare memoranda for circulation.)
(4) Procedure in Replying to Question Put by Germans Sir Maurice Hankey said that in consultation with Mr. Dutasta,3 he had prepared a scheme for dealing with questions raised by the Germans in connection with the Treaty of Peace. (Appendix.)
(The scheme was approved.)
(5) Reparation. Division by the Allied and Associated Powers Sir Maurice Hankey recalled the decision that had been taken in the morning4 that the proportions in which the successive instalments paid over by Germany in satisfaction of claims against her should be divided by the Allied and Associated Powers should be determined by the Reparation Commission set up in the Reparation Articles, in proportion to the claims allowed by the Commission. He asked for instructions as to what action should be taken to give effect to this decision. It was not a matter which would affect any clause in the Treaty of Peace, and as these Minutes were not circulated, he felt some doubt as to the best method of placing it on record so that it [Page 371] should not be overlooked. He had contemplated writing a letter to M. Loucheur, Mr. Norman Davis and Mr. Keynes, so that the experts of France, the United States of America, and Great Britain, might be apprised of the decision.
Mr. Lloyd George said that the matter was one of so great importance that he thought it should take the form of a letter or a formal minute signed by M. Clemenceau, President Wilson and himself.
(This was agreed to and Sir Maurice Hankey was instructed to draft the letter.)
(6) Military Terms of Peace. Article 46 (It was decided provisionally and subject to possible revision in the event of good reason being shown to the contrary that Article 46 of the Military terms of Peace should be suppressed.)
Note: Article 46 is as follows:—
“The Armistice of November 11th 1918 and the Convention subsequent thereto, remain in force so far as they are not inconsistent with tie above stipulations.”
Sir Maurice Hankey was instructed to communicate this decision to the Secretary General for the information of the Drafting Committee.
(7) Military Terms. Article 45 Sir Maurice Hankey pointed out that Article 45 was reserved.
President Wilson asked how the Allied and Associated Powers could change the German laws.
Mr. Lloyd George pointed out that if the German Military Service Law was not abolished, military recruits would automatically be called up for service.
(It was agreed that the form of the Article should be altered so as to provide that the German Government should undertake within a period not exceeding three months from the ratification of the Treaty to modify their law.)
(8) sale of a Floating Dock at Hamburg Mr. Lloyd George read a telegram from the British Admiralty urging that an alteration should be made in Article 32 of the Naval Clauses, specially providing for the surrender of Floating Docks, and calling attention to the sale of a large Floating Dock now at Hamburg to an Engineering and Slipway Company at Rotterdam which was not prevented by the Armistice terms.
(It was agreed that no alteration should be made in the Treaty in this respect.)
Villa Majestic, Paris, 30 April, 1919.
[Page 372]- This statement has not been identified.↩
- Admiral Alexander Vasilevich Kolchak, leader of anti-Soviet Russian forces in Siberia; proclaimed at Omsk, on November 18, 1918, Supreme Governor of Russia.↩
- Paul E. Dutasta, French Ambassador in Switzerland; Secretary General of the Peace Conference.↩
- See IC–177E, p. 355.↩