Paris Peace Conf. 180.03101/2½
Notes on Conversation Held in the Office of M. Pichon at the Quai d’Orsay on January 13, 1919
Present
| United States of America: | President Wilson |
| Mr. Lansing | |
| Mr. Frazier | |
| Mr. Harrison | |
| France: | M. Clemenceau |
| M. Pichon | |
| M. Dutasta | |
| M. Berthelot | |
| Capt. Portier | |
| Great Britain: | Mr. Lloyd George |
| Mr. Balfour | |
| Lt. Col. Hankey | |
| Major Caccia | |
| Italy: | M. Sonnino |
| Count Aldrovandi | |
| Capt. Jones | |
| Japan: | Viscount Chinda |
| Mr. Matsui |
Interpreter: M. Mantoux.
(Continuation of Meeting of January 12, 1919.)
Discussion of the Procedure of the Peace Conference
- 1.
Mr. Lloyd George referred to the question of the representation of the Dominions,—a question which had been suspended and not decided at the first meeting. He stated that he had discussed the matter with the Dominion Premiers and felt that each Dominion should be allowed to have a representative present when questions came up which concerned it. He had also promised to allow the Dominions representation in the British panel of five.
Mr. Lloyd George also stated that he thought it just that the Independent Indian Principalities should be represented at the Conference. He pointed out that the population of these states amounted to some 70 million and that they had furnished 150,000 troops. Their relationship to the Empire was established by Treaties of Peace.
President Wilson wished to make it clear that he personally had no objection to the Dominions being represented at the Conference. He then asked whether Mr. Lloyd George considered the following an equitable allotment: Canada, two representatives; Newfoundland, one; South Africa, two; Australia, two; New Zealand, one.
[Page 540]Mr. Lloyd George thought it only right that Canada, Australia and New Zealand should be properly represented as they had done so much in the War.
Mr. Balfour suggested that Newfoundland be given a place in the British Panel.
President Wilson, therefore, proposed that Canada, Australia and South Africa be given two representatives each, and New Zealand, British India and Independent India one representative each, on the understanding that they were to be present only when matters which concerned them were under discussion. The proposal was approved.
- 2.
- It was decided that the individuals who are at present in Paris representing certain sections of Russia, should not be admitted as delegates to the conference. It was agreed that a final decision as to Russian representation at the Conference should be postponed until the whole Russian question shall have been discussed and a policy determined.
- 3.
President Wilson presented arguments in support of a larger representation for Brazil. He pointed out that Brazil had lent certain assistance in the War; that there were 30 million people in Brazil, and that it was important for the Allies to attach Brazil firmly to their interests. President Wilson mentioned also the large number of German emigrants in Southern Brazil. Mr. Lloyd George observed that Brazil had sent but two or three torpedo boats and no troops. President Wilson stated that he was considering the matter from the point of view of the future and not of the past.
Mr. Lloyd George said he merely wished to point out the possible effect it might have on other countries such as Greece, Serbia and Belgium. However, he did not wish to delay the proceedings of the meeting, and would not resist the President’s proposal. Baron Sonnino suggested that Belgium be likewise given three delegates.
Mr. Lloyd George pointed out that should this be done, the effect of giving three to Brazil would be entirely lost.
It was agreed to give three delegates to Brazil.
- 4.
- President Wilson referred to the matter of having a delegate from Costa Rica present at the Conference. He gave a short history of the events which led up to the existing condition of affairs in Costa Rica, pointed out that he had not recognized the present Government, that the Government of Gen. Tinoco had hastened to declare War on Germany after the United States had done so for the sole purpose of obtaining recognition, and that he felt that he could not afford to associate with a representative of Costa Rica at the Peace Conference. For these reasons, he proposed that Costa Rica should not be represented at the Peace Conference. This was agreed to.
- 5.
- It was agreed that small states theoretically belligerent should have one delegate.
- 6.
- It was agreed that those states which had broken relations with the enemy should be assimilated to neutrals, and should have one delegate who should be present at the Conferences in which questions concerning them might be discussed.
- 7.
- M. Pichon suggested that a committee be formed to settle details regarding the representation of small states and neutral states. President Wilson named Mr. Frazier as his representative.
- 8.
- The suggestions contained in the French plan1 under subheading 2 of Section I regarding Terms of Participation were accepted, and it was agreed that the five powers whose representatives were then present should “summon” the Neutrals and states in the process of formation in the manner set out in the last paragraph of the section under consideration.
- 9.
- The first two paragraphs of subheading 3, of Section I, Representation of Enemy Powers, were accepted. The questions contained in the remaining paragraphs were postponed for the present.
- 10.
Mr. Lloyd George stated that he had no objection to the suggestion regarding the attendance of Technical Experts at the Peace Conference provided this did not affect the understanding regarding the use of the panel system.
This was agreed to.
- 11.
M. Pichon explained that the messages and notes of President Wilson had been taken as a basis for the order of the debates in Section II.
President Wilson stated that he was going to propose that certain questions be referred to those present with a view to determine their organic connection. He hoped that those present would not agree on any fixed order of discussion. For instance, he believed it more important at the moment that those present should consider the whole question of treatment of Russia rather than the publicity of Treaties.
Mr. Lloyd George endorsed the suggestion.
Mr. Balfour thought that the question of Boundaries was of importance.
M. Clemenceau observed that what was needed was a “list” and not an “order” of subjects to be discussed.
President Wilson submitted a list of subjects which he suggested should be referred to each Delegation with a request that they be prepared to state their views on each:
- League of Nations
- Reparation
- New States
- Boundaries
- Colonies.
- 12.
- This proposal precipitated a general discussion of the necessity for fixing a date for a General Conference.
M. Clemenceau observed that there had already been a month’s delay and that the public had been greatly disappointed. He therefore suggested that Thursday next be fixed for the first formal Conference.
Baron Sonnino explained that it would be impossible for M. Orlando to return by that date and suggested that the first meeting take place on Saturday, January 18th.
This proposal was accepted.
It was agreed that M. Poincare would deliver the opening address.
It was further agreed that the list of subjects for discussion submitted by President Wilson should be communicated to the delegates of the other belligerent states, with a request that they communicate their views on the subjects named to the Great Powers, whose desire it was to meet the wishes of the smaller belligerent states as far as possible.
It was decided that the next meeting to continue the discussion of the Plan of Procedure should take place at 10:30 a.m., January 15, 1919.