No. 56.
Interview with C. B. Wells, of
Wailuku, Maui, May 15, 1893.
Q. What is your business?
A. I am manager for two sugar plantations.
Q. Where were you born?
A. In the State of New York.
Q. How long have you lived in the islands?
A. Over thirteen years.
Q. Were you here on January 14, 1893?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you here during the revolution?
A. I was not in Honolulu. I was in Maui.
Q. When did you first learn about it?
A. About four or five days after it was over.
Q. Then you could not give me any information about events here?
A. None whatever.
Q. What sort of laborers do you work on your plantations?
A. Hawaiians, Japanese, Chinese, and Portuguese.
Q. How many in all?
A. It varies according to the work we have. We run as high as 425 people.
Q. How many are contract laborers?
A. About half, I think.
Q. What is the character of the Japanese laborer?
A. The Japanese are of very low caste indeed. I think they are the lowest people in this country in every respect—not only in morals, but in their relations to each other—in regard to the bond of sympathy.
Q. Are they a combative people among themselves?
A. Very.
Q. How are they gathered up in Japan—from what class?
A. Those who came to this country first were the riffraff of the cities, but later on they have been gathered from the interior and are a better class.
Q. Are they intelligent?
A. No.
Q. Do they bring their women to any extent?
A. No; not a large percentage. In lots of 50 there might perhaps be 13 women.
Q. What is the character of the women?
A. A majority of them loose in their morals.
Q Do they work in the fields with the men?
[Page 998]A. We try to separate them; put them to light work, such as irrigating cane. I think a majority of the women who come here are not married to the men; come here merely to live with them.
Q. Loose women?
A. Yes; that is my impression.
Q. Why do you take them out of the fields?
A. On account of their morals. They were likely to entice men to cohabit with them. I have caught several in the act.
Q. Is that the character of the women generally?
A. That is my impression. My impression is that a majority of them are rather loose; that for a consideration they will sell their body.
Q. What about the Chinese women?
A. There are none here to speak of.
Q. What about the character of the men—Chinese laborers?
A. I think as a whole they are a peaceful, quiet race of people and reliable laborers.
Q. Do they speak the English language much?
A. No; a great many of them speak the Hawaiian language. Some speak pigeon English.
Q. After their contract has expired do they remain here in any considerable number?
A. Of late a good many have returned to their own country.
Q. Those who remain here, what do they do?
A. Some remain on plantations. A large majority of them—I don’t know how they exist. I think through opium and gambling.
Q. Any engaged in cultivating taro and rice?
A. Yes. Many of them are crowding out the natives in making taro (poi).
Q. Any engaged in fishing?
A. Not to a great extent. They are certainly getting control of the raising of taro and the making of poi.
Q. Do any of them get to be merchants?
A. A great many of them.
Q. Now, the Portuguese.
A. They are the best class of laborers we have here. They are extremely industrious; they are sober; they practice strict economy; they save money and are a very desirable class of people. The only drawback is you have to pay them more wages. They can not live as cheaply as the Japanese and Chinese.
Q. You have quit bringing them here on that account?
A. Yes.
Q. How are the Portuguese, educated or illiterate?
A. As a whole they are illiterate. The rising generation is being educated and is quite bright.
Q. Now, about the Hawaiians. How do they work?
A. They are very good in certain work—irrigating and handling of water and driving bullock teams.
Q. Not as good in cane fields as Chinamen?
A. Well, if they have good overseers and watch them they will do good work.
Q. How about Chinamen?
A. They are faithful workers.
Q. Without overseers?
A. No; no laborers are, excepting Portuguese. If you send 3 or 4 Portuguese a distance to mend a fence or road they will do the work, but Hawaiians will talk and idle. Chinamen about the same. Chinamen [Page 999] are very good. I am doing contract work with them. I give them watering and stripping to do at a certain figure. I find it works very satisfactorily. They work hard, and you don’t have to have any overseer.
Q. If the question were submitted to the people who voted under the old constitution with the only qualification for a voter that he should read and write, what would be the result—for or against annexation?
A. So far as the foreigner is concerned there would be a very large majority in favor of annexation, and the Portuguese would be a unit for annexation. As to the Hawaiians I think that a majority would not be in favor of it.
Q. What would be the final result of these combined votes?
A. That is a question that would be rather hard for me to answer.
Q. Suppose it was done under the Australian ballot system?
A. I am inclined to think it would be against annexation. It might be in favor of annexation, if the Portuguese were allowed to vote.
Q. They vote whether they can read and write or not; don’t they?
A. Yes.
Q. That has been so from the beginning?
A. Since 1887. I am inclined to think if the Portuguese voted under the Australian system, as a large percentage are illiterate, that perhaps they would be voting against annexation when they meant to vote for annexation.
Q. Do you think you could have good government here if you only required of a voter knowledge sufficient to read and write the English language?
A. I doubt it very much.
Q. Why?
A. Because I think we would go back to the old order of things.
Q. What is the old order of things?
A. The state we had under the deposed Queen.
Q. What is that state?
A. The Hawaiians getting control of the legislature and going in for extravagance which the foreigners were having to pay for. The money was not coming out of the pockets of the people who were voting the money. It was coming out of other pockets. The action of the Queen in wanting to spring this new constitution shows her feeling toward foreigners and her deliberate intention of making them pay the fiddler, so to speak, and without giving them any privileges.
Q. What do you mean by privileges?
A. That we could exist here and run our plantations. I have no doubt if she could have her way she would disfranchise every foreigner in the country and put it wholly in the hands of Hawaiians.
Q. Why do you think that?
A. I think we have had sufficient evidence of it in her actions in the Legislature. In removing men from the Wilcox cabinet, men of stability of character and influence, removing them to put in men who were irresponsible and would soon wreck us.
Q. You think then with the privilege of any native to vote who could read and write the English language that you would drift back to the condition of things you have just stated?
A. Yes.
Q. What would you think of the Japanese as voters?
A. I would most emphatically condemn any move toward giving the Japanese franchise.
Q. Would it make the situation you speak of worse?
[Page 1000]A. I think it would make it a very serious matter.
Q. The Chinese allowed to vote—still worse?
A. I do not think so. I think the Chinese would be the opposite of the Japanese. I think the Japanese would be controlled by their Government. They would vote as they were directed to vote. The Chinese are not very friendly with the Japanese, and they would vote to the contrary.
Q. Who would control the Chinese vote?
A. I think they would be very largely controlled by their societies.
Q. How many overseers have you on your plantations?
A. Nineteen.
Q. Do you have to have men with every squad of hands during the hours of labor?
A. There is an overseer with every gang of 20 or 30 people. I have a head overseer who looks after all the different gangs.
Q. Suppose a fellow is idling in the field, what do you do?
A. Well, if he is a day man, he is discharged.
Q. If he is a contract laborer?
A. We dock him. We give him half or three-quarters of a day and if they keep it up we resort to the law and have them arrested for refusing to work.
Q. What do you accomplish by putting him in jail?
A. It has been rather unsatisfactory as a rule. The first offense he is merely ordered back to his work and the plantation has to pay the cost of the court and charge it to the man. He does not care. He has to work it off.
Q. Well, what do you do then?
A. If he refuses to obey orders and work he is arrested again. Perhaps a light penalty of two or three dollars fine is inflicted. That the plantation can pay and take out of his wages, or if the plantation refuses to do so he is put on the road to work it out. The third offense he is likely to have three months’ imprisonment. That is a new law enacted in the last Legislature. Before that you could go on having him arrested and paying fines. It was better to drop the man than to go on with that.
Q. At this time most of the laborers are Japanese?
A. Yes; almost entirely. A few Chinese come in, but very few.
Q. The Portuguese cost so much you do not get them?
A. Yes. A large number leave the country and go to California. I venture to say that 25 per cent of the Portuguese have left this country within the last eighteen months. The wages have been cut down in order that the plantations might exist, and I doubt if they could exist if they didn’t have wives and children to work. By all working they can get along very well. Many more would leave the country if they had means.
Q. Then the sugar-planters’ best reliance for labor now is by negotiations with the Japanese Government?
A. That is the only way we have now to speak of.
Q. Are you in favor of annexation?
A. Strongly.
Q. What would be the effect on property here—on values?
A. Outside of sugar plantations I think lands would enhance in value. It would open up our crown lands and bring a desirable class of people here.
Q. Are not the crown lands very largely leased out?
A. A great many of them have not been leased out.
[Page 1001]Q. They are good lands.
A. A great many are very good lands.
Q. What is being done with them now?
A. Nothing in particular. A great deal of crown land is idle now for the reason that there is not large enough area for plantations, but it would be large enough for the support of a family. It would be good for raising pineapples, bananas, etc.
Q. Well, that population coming here to engage in that business would be a new condition of things?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What do you think about the value of sugar lands; would they go up or not?
A. I do not think they would go up at all.
Q. Do you not think that this influx, of population you speak of would have generally the effect of increasing values of every sort?
A. Well, that would very largely depend on the arrangement regarding our sugar going into the United States. If the plantation was realizing more for sugar it would increase the value of lands. There is no sugar land to take up. It is mostly taken up.
Q. And the additional population that would come here would engage in the raising of fruit?
A. Yes; fruit and coffee. I have great faith in the coffee industry. I think a thrifty farmer coming here could take small pieces of land. I think some plantations would be better off if they could go into some scheme of that character.
Q. That would involve the building of houses for these people?
A. Yes.
Q. Then you would expect men to come with means enough to build his house?
A. Well, I think if they only had partial means that a portion would be advanced to them.
Q. Well, what about his supplies while he was making a crop?
A. I have no doubt the plantation would advance him a certain percentage while he was making a crop.
Q. Charging him interest, of course, on advances?
A. Yes; certainly. I think probably certain portions would be advanced without interest. That would be a matter he would have to take his chances on.
These notes have been read to me by Mr. Mills, and I pronounce them an accurate report of the interview between myself and Col. Blount.
This was done because Mr. Wells was leaving the island. He could not wait until the notes were transcribed.—E. M.