318. Telephone Conversation Between President Nixon and the President’s Assistant for National Security Affairs (Kissinger)1
Nixon: Hello.
Kissinger: Mr. President?
Nixon: I wondered what the latest report was?
Kissinger: Right. We haven’t had the Thieu answer; we just have his reactions as he received your letter.2
Nixon: The second letter? The third letter—?
Kissinger: The second letter—
Nixon: The third letter—?
Kissinger: The letter we discussed yesterday.
Nixon: Yeah.
Kissinger: And he said, well, he understands that if you’d make these requests, that there must be a very grave situation here. And he’s now, practically, agreed to the agreement. Now, he’s yakking about the protocols.
Nixon: Yeah, he’s been doing that for all week, of course.
[Page 1126]Kissinger: Well, no, he was still—he’s now given up on his objections to the agreement. I am certain, now, he’s coming along.
Nixon: Um-hmm.
Kissinger: And he is, just now, making the record of having fought every step of the way.
Nixon: Um-hmm. Um-hmm. Well, do we expect an answer from him—?
Kissinger: We expect some answer today, yes. Which, in my view, will still leave a little crack open. What he would like to be able to say, for domestic reasons, is that his Foreign Minister talked to me in Paris and got one crappy little concession.
Nixon: Um-hmm.
Kissinger: Now, I have sent Sullivan in to see the North Vietnamese.
Nixon: Um-hmm.
Kissinger: And it’s just possible that we’ll get one.
Nixon: Um-hmm.
Kissinger: And I’ll know that tonight.
Nixon: Um-hmm. Um-hmm.
Kissinger: But, even without it, I’m certain he’ll come along, now.
Nixon: He doesn’t have any choice. I mean that, as we all well know. Well, in any event, what—you said you’re planning to leave tonight?
Kissinger: No, tomorrow morning.3
Nixon: Tomorrow morning? Um-hmm. Well—
Kissinger: And Haig will be coming back this afternoon.
Nixon: Well, what time tomorrow morning?
Kissinger: I’m leaving at nine.
Nixon: I mean, what time we should get together?
Kissinger: Oh, any time you say.
Nixon: Well, what time—you see, I meant what time [unclear]—well, when everything will be in the bag. That’s what I want to know. Maybe it would—maybe we’d better wait—
Kissinger: Well—
Nixon: —wait ’til tomorrow morning.
Kissinger: Tomorrow morning, we’ll have all the facts.
Nixon: Yeah, there’s no use—
Kissinger: And I can put off the departure by—
[Page 1127]Nixon: Um-hmm.
Kissinger: —a half an hour.
Nixon: No use to meet before that. Suppose that we plan to meet at, say—say 8:30 tomorrow morning? That gives us a time to—for you to have—you—I mean, you—are you supposed to depart at 9:00?
[Omitted here is further discussion of the President’s and Kissinger’s schedules.]
Kissinger: I think, Mr. President, at the very worst, if I would—could recommend, if he has not given his formal agreement, then, I would just ignore him. I would not make—and he will, then, the next day, certainly come along.
Nixon: Um-hmm.
Kissinger: He cannot afford to break with you publicly once you’ve committed yourself.
Nixon: Um-hmm. Well, we’ve told them—him that in the letter, haven’t we, Henry?
Kissinger: We’ve told him that, but he hasn’t broken with you once he realized—once he accepted the fact that you meant business.
Nixon: Yeah. Yeah—
Kissinger: Every exchange, he moves closer to you.
Nixon: Um-hmm. Um-hmm.
Kissinger: He is not acting like a man digging in.
Nixon: Right. Good, well then, we’ll plan—as a matter of fact, we’ll meet, then, at 8 o’clock in the morning. Let’s just make it certain.
Kissinger: Right.
Nixon: And then, that way, we can get the whole thing fired out of the way.
[Omitted here is discussion about meeting Haig when he returns and closing remarks.]
- Source: National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, White House Tapes, The President’s Residence at the White House, Conversation 36–30. No classification marking. According to the President’s Daily Diary, Nixon and Kissinger spoke from 10:33 to 10:37 a.m. (Ibid., White House Central Files) The editors transcribed the portions of the conversation printed here specifically for this volume.↩
- The letter is in Document 313. In backchannel message 348 from Saigon, Bunker noted that when he gave the letter to Thieu, “Thieu made no comment except to say that he had done his best and all that he could do for his country. He appeared resigned but not unfriendly.” (See footnote 1, Document 320)↩
- Kissinger was to depart for Paris on January 22 to meet Le Duc Tho the next day.↩