11. Memorandum of Conversation0
PARTICIPANTS
-
United States
- The Secretary
- Mr. Foy D. Kohler
- Mr. Raymond L. Garthoff
-
Czechoslovakia
- Mr. Vaclav David, Foreign Minister
- Mr. Jiri Hajek, Vice Minister
- Interpreter
SUBJECT
- U.S.-Czechoslovak Relations and Berlin
The Czechs were cold, unyielding, and the most firm parrot of the Soviet line on Berlin and Germany of all Satellite representatives here. Disarmament was not discussed. The meeting was held on March 22 at the Palais lounge, on the initiative of the Secretary, and lasted about one hour.
The Secretary hoped that we could improve our relations, which both agreed had not been very good. David suggested in a very wooden way that perhaps we could expand our cultural and technical exchanges, etc. The Secretary noted that larger issues impinge on U.S.-Czech relations, such as the Moscow–Prague relationship, the Berlin issue, and Czech-Cuban relations. On the last of these, we and other governments in the Western hemisphere were aware of Czech shipments of arms, and illicit Cuban transshipment to other countries. These issues affected our policy, and also sometimes affected public congressional debates in ways not reflecting policy.
David stated that he had understood our present negotiations on a bilateral agreement did not require congressional ratification. The Secretary explained that that understanding was correct, that we were negotiating an executive agreement and he had not meant to imply that ratification by the Senate would be required. He was speaking, the Secretary said, about public policy debate which would doubtless attend publicity on such an agreement, and such debate would be affected by the prevailing political climate.
On Berlin, David stated that there was no need for the issue to arise or have any influence on the U.S.-Czech relations. The Czechs had suffered from German aggression, were for liquidation of the remnants of World War II on the basis of the existence of the two German states, who [Page 20] were neighbors of Czechoslovakia. The Secretary noted that West Berlin and Western presence and access thereto was as much a fact as anything in Germany. The Secretary stated that the West was in West Berlin, had access to Berlin, and would leave only by its consent, which would not be given under present circumstances. David rejoined that the Soviet proposals for a Berlin settlement and for a German peace treaty were just and were supported by Czechoslovakia. The occupation regime, he stated, must be ended.
On Cuba, David replied that Czechoslovakia had relations with states of various political systems, and had relations with Cuba on the basis of equality and mutual noninterference in internal affairs. (David started to make a comment on the question of arms, but changed his mind and with Hajek’s concurrence in an aside consultation David dropped the subject, so that it was not translated and did not enter the conversation.)1
The Secretary referred to the previous conversation of Mr. Kohler and Mr. Hajek on the question of current bilateral negotiations for an agreement (reported Secto 76)2 and asked if there were any points requiring further exchange of views. David, and then Hajek, addressed this point, insisting that the U.S. was departing from the agreed principles initialled on December 8. Hajek said that some differences were minor and could be explained as differences in interpretation, but that two were substantial. One was the question of inclusion of trade provisions in the general agreement so as to give them equal value (standing). The second point was an alleged U.S. narrowing of the scope of the agreed principles by our present definition of the claims to be covered. The Secretary said we were not deviating from the December agreed principles as we saw them. There was no conclusive agreement on the proposal for an exchange of letters on the trade provisions. On the question of claims, the Czech position was uncompromising.
The Secretary proposed, and it was agreed, that the negotiators should continue to work out the agreement in full. The Secretary noted, however, that final conclusion of the agreement would depend upon the general climate at the time. The Secretary and David agreed that the agreement could be, in terms of disarmament language, a “first stage” in improvement of U.S.-Czech relations.
- Source: Department of State, Central Files, 611.49/3–2362. Confidential. Drafted by Garthoff, cleared by Kohler, and approved in S on March 23. The meeting was held at the Palais des Nations.↩
- In an informal meeting on March 16, Rusk had warned David that continued aid for Cuba’s illegal activities would seriously harm U.S.-Czechoslovak relations. (Ibid., 611.494/3–1762)↩
- ed Secto 76, March 21, reported on a Kohler–Hajek luncheon meeting dealing with the Berlin crisis and bilateral issues. (Ibid., Conference Files: Lot 65 D 533, CF 2060)↩