Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961–1963, Volume XV, Berlin Crisis, 1962–1963

99. Memorandum of Conversation⁰

Washington, August 21, 1962, 11 a.m.

SUBJECT

• Berlin

PARTICIPANTS

• USSR
  • Ambassador Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
• US
  • The Secretary
  • Mr. Frank E. Cash, Jr., EUR/GER

The Secretary opened by commenting that he wanted to say a few words about the present situation in Berlin. He said he felt it was very important that the Soviet and Western Commandants get together to deal with the problem of tensions in the city. He said it was necessary to go back to the building of the wall, itself, to find the major cause for the sense of deep dismay and anger felt by both West and East Berliners. The separation of families and the splitting of the life of the city had made a deep impact. It was inevitable that the wall would contribute to tensions in Berlin. Following the building of the wall there had been a number of incidents mostly the result of East Berliners trying to get to West Berlin. There had been shootings, violence, and bullets flying into West Berlin endangering lives, all of which had created a sense of dismay and outrage. Last Friday when the East Berlin police shot an 18 year old boy and left him lying for one hour with no assistance, a wave of revulsion and horror had gone around the world. It is hard to understand how anyone could be so callous, and we cannot believe that this represents the policy or the attitude of the Soviet Government. On more than one occasion we have urged that the four Commandants should meet to consult on the way to handle problems arising in Berlin. We think such a meeting could improve the situation. Neither the Soviets nor we want these problems put in the hands of the Germans on both sides of the wall, leaving it to them to stir up a situation reaching beyond Berlin with which the Great Powers, rather than the Germans, must deal. During the last two days the Soviet Deputy Commandant has come without appointment to ask to see General Watson. General Watson has asked the Acting Soviet Commandant to meet to consult on recent events. We will take the necessary steps to maintain law and order in West Berlin, but this can be difficult in a city of 2–1/4 million people. The demonstrations since the incident on Friday have created problems, but these are matters where quadripartite cooperation is required because one thing leads to another. The US, French, and British Commandants have urged a meeting with the Soviet Commandant to reduce tensions and ensure law and order. The Secretary said he would urge once again that this matter be reconsidered so that the Soviet Commandant could meet with his Western counterparts. He hoped very much that the Ambassador would send the President’s and his genuine urging that the Commandants get together to handle these problems in a peaceful fashion.

Ambassador Dobrynin said the only information he had was from the Western press, but it seemed that there had been stoning of Soviet soldiers and buses. This is really a matter of great concern. He would report what the Secretary had said.

The Secretary said that there was a direct connection between the killing of the 18 year old boy on Friday and the stones thrown at both Soviet and American soldiers. He noted that for a time the Soviets had refused an escort for their buses.

Ambassador Dobrynin said there was no change in the position of the Soviet Government, but he would report what the Secretary said.

The Secretary said he wished to underline the importance of the Soviet Government’s permitting the East German regime to carry out incidents which caused tension. He said one could not logically create tension in Berlin and then complain that the city was a source of tension.

Ambassador Dobrynin said that the Secretary knew the Soviet arguments, and there was no need to repeat them.

The Secretary and Ambassador Dobrynin agreed that they would say to the press that they had had an exchange of views on the current situation in Berlin.¹

0. Source: Department of State, Secretary’s Memoranda of Conversation: Lot 65 D 330. Secret. Drafted by Cash and approved in S on September 6. The meeting was held in Secretary Rusk’s office.
1. For text of this statement, see Department of State Wireless Bulletin, No. 233, August 22, 1962. Following this conversation Tyler briefed the Ambassadorial Group. The group also considered the draft of a note to the Soviet Union protesting the killing of PETER FECHTER. (Telegram 485 to Bonn, August 21; ibid., Central Files, 611.61/8–2162) For text of the U.S. protest note, delivered to the Soviet Foreign Ministry on August 24, see Department of State Bulletin, September 10, 1962, pp. 378–379.