Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961–1963, Volume XV, Berlin Crisis, 1962–1963

152. Memorandum of Conversation⁰

Washington, November 13, 1962.

SUBJECT

• Berlin

PARTICIPANTS

• Mr. Georgi M. Kornienko, Counselor, Soviet Embassy
• Mr. Martin J. Hillenbrand, Director, Berlin Task Force

At his request Mr. Kornienko called on Mr. Hillenbrand to deliver a book which Deputy Foreign Minister Semenov had said he would send to Mr. Hillenbrand during a conversation at the Secretary of State’s dinner for Foreign Minister Gromyko.¹ (The book turned out to be “West Berlin—The Facts”, issued in English by the Foreign Language Publishing House in Moscow in 1962. It apparently has been distributed fairly widely in New York in connection with the General Assembly Session.)

Mr. Kornienko observed that it now seemed appropriate that the dialogue on Berlin should be resumed between the Soviet Union and the United States. It appeared to him that each side was waiting for the other to take the initiative to resume contacts on this subject. Speaking personally, he did not believe that Chairman Khrushchev would be coming to the General Assembly Session. Purely from a timing point of view, this would be very difficult. The Central Committee would be meeting in Moscow for a week or so starting on the 19th of November and the GA Session was supposed to end around December 10.

Mr. Hillenbrand commented that we seemed to be at a somewhat interdeterminate stage as far as Berlin discussions were concerned. It was not clear precisely how these should or would be resumed. After all, the leaders of both countries had been concentrating on other problems during the past month, and as he was aware, the Cuban question had to date not been satisfactorily settled.

As to summitry, Mr. Kornienko said that the positions of the United States and the Soviet Union now appeared to be the same in considering that a summit meeting might be useful under two sets of circumstances: during a crisis in order to avert conflict, and after substantial agreement had been reached at a lower level in order to confirm this agreement. Mr. Hillenbrand observed that, in the past, we had sometimes had the impression that summit meetings were thought of in terms of their propaganda effect or as useful in creating a mood which was not necessarily in harmony with the nature of the issues under dispute.

Mr. Kornienko referred to press reports this morning of Chancellor Adenauer’s views, and noted that he was quoted as being opposed to any negotiations on Berlin and Germany at this time. Mr. Hillenbrand said we would, of course, be hearing directly with the Chancellor on these matters. This would be a more authoritative version of his views than those in press reports as to the accuracy of which we had no guarantee.

Referring to a recent Flora Lewis article in the Washington Post,²Kornienko noted that, apart from the Chancellor’s opposition to discussions now, he appeared to have accepted the four points mentioned by Miss Lewis. Mr. Hillenbrand observed that the points mentioned in the article had been contained in one form or another in the informal working paper which the Secretary had handed Foreign Minister Gromyko at Geneva last March on a personal basis. Kornienko said this was true, but these matters had not really been discussed in subsequent meetings between the Secretary and Gromyko. Mr. Hillenbrand commented that this was true, but as the Soviets were aware, the issue of Western troop presence in Berlin had been singled out by mutual agreement as the crucial one.

After a further exchange as to why the previous discussions on Berlin had not seemed to make any headway, Mr. Kornienko noted that a few points seemed to have emerged which might provide a basis for further discussion. Apart from the idea of an Arbitration Commission, to which Foreign Minister Gromyko had called attention, the President had made a remark during his October 18 conversation with Gromyko³ about the possibility of discussing the status of the Western troops in Berlin which had been noted with interest.

The conversation concluded with Kornienko’s remark that it now remained to be seen how the discussion between the Soviet Union and the United States on Berlin would be resumed.

0. Source: Department of State, Central Files, 762.00/11–1362. Secret. Drafted and initialed by Hillenbrand.
1. See Document 136.
2. The Washington Post, November 11, 1962.
3. See Document 135.