84. Memorandum of Conversation0
Vienna, June 3, 1961.
SUBJECT
- Vienna Meeting Between The President and Chairman Khrushchev
PARTICIPANTS:
- Listed on Page 4
During lunch the conversation was mostly of a social nature. The points of significance that emerged were the following:
- (1)
- During the discussion of the history of the Laotian Conference, Mr. Khrushchev said that the conference had found a good solution for Viet Nam and said that perhaps the same would happen this time.
- (2)
- In discussing agricultural problems in the Soviet Union, Mr. Khrushchev stressed the need for a great increase in their chemical production so as to ensure sufficient quantities of chemical fertilizers, herbicides, etc. He also mentioned that about 25 to 30% of the USSRʼs population were engaged in agriculture. He also implied that he had direct channels of communication to Mr. Garst, who had denied a statement Secretary Rusk had made to Mr. Gromyko about the development of dwarf corn in the United States.
- (3)
- With reference to Gagarinʼs flight,2 Mr. Khrushchev said that prior to the launching there were many unknown factors, particularly with regard to the psychological effects of such flights on human beings. Prior to the flight there was some fear of entrusting Gagarin with the controls of the space craft. Nevertheless, he was given the controls but the instructions were coded and sealed in an envelope. The code was developed in such a way as to make sure that only a normal person could decode it. Now everything is known: Gagarin has made his flight, and he sang songs while in orbit.
- (4)
- With regard to the possibility of launching a man to the moon, Mr. Khrushchev said that he was cautious because of the military aspect of such flights. In response to the Presidentʼs inquiry whether the US and the USSR should go to the moon together, Mr. Khrushchev first said no, but then said “all right, why not?”
- (5)
- In raising his glass to the health of his guest, the President expressed satisfaction that Mr. Khrushchev was here at the American Embassy. He recalled Mr. Khrushchevʼs visit to the United States and expressed appreciation that he had come to see us and learn about the way our people live. The President also said that we admired Mr. Khrushchevʼs vigor and energy he devotes to the cause in which he believes and to his country. While we may not always agree with his views, we appreciate his influence on the matters affecting the relations between our two countries. The President expressed the hope that during these two days a better understanding of world events could be reached. The President also recalled that his predecessor had welcomed Mr. Khrushchev to the United States and he said that it was a privilege for him to welcome Mr. Khrushchev here on this small piece of the U.S. Finally, he expressed the hope that the conversations would be fruitful and said that it was a matter of personal satisfaction for him to be able to welcome Mr. Khrushchev at this time.
- (6)
- In response to the toast, Mr. Khrushchev expressed the hope that wisdom would be found to ensure good relations between the two countries and throughout the world. He said he did not want to exaggerate the role assigned to the two countries by history, but in their pursuit of [Page 180] peace the two countries could stop, by joint effort, any war that might be started by some other country. The respective views of the two countries were well known and the purpose here was not to persuade each other. However, the Soviet people were also human beings and they wanted their generations to live and prosper. Mr. Khrushchev said that he had had the pleasure of visiting the United States at former President Eisenhowerʼs invitation. He said he respected Eisenhower and expressed regret at the unhappy development of their relations. The U-2 flight had been the main cause of such a development and he was almost sure that Eisenhower had not known about the flight. Nevertheless, Eisenhower decided to take the responsibility for this flight in the spirit of chivalry. The flight was an effort on the part of the people who wanted to worsen the relations between the two countries and they achieved their goal. Mr. Khrushchev expressed his regret that he could not receive Eisenhower in the USSR and said he hoped to receive the President when time was ripe. The road for such a visit was open. The President would be a welcome guest if he should wish to come. However, one note of caution was in order. Mr. Nixon had thought that just by showing the Soviet people a dream kitchen, a kitchen that certainly did not exist nor would ever exist in the US, he would convert the Soviet people to capitalism. Mr. Khrushchev apologized for referring to Nixon, a citizen of the United States, but said that only Nixon could have thought of such nonsense. Mr. Khrushchev continued by saying the President would be free to see everyone in the Soviet Union and to get the feel of their life. TheUSSR is not afraid for its system. It believes in it and it rests on a sound basis. Mr. Khrushchev said he had always been an optimist and had always believed in the wisdom of man. However, the commercial language of bargaining is sometimes used in dealings with the Soviet Union. The USSR is told “you give in and we will give in”, but “what can I concede?” Mr. Khrushchev asked. Concession of even a portion, a lump of peace would mean no peace at all. The USSR is blamed for Communist movements in various countries. But, Mr. Khrushchev said, he did not know even who their leaders were. He is too busy at home. Marx and Engels are the originators of Communism and if anyone is to blame for Communism, it should be the Germans. True, the USSR has adopted Marxism and in that sense perhaps it should share the blame. Mr. Khrushchev said this was just a joke and that, in a more serious vein, he wanted to say that the Soviet people respect the American people. They admire their successes. As a matter of fact, after the Revolution the level of US technology and science was set as a goal for the USSR. American technicians were invited to the Soviet Union, and such people as Colonel Cooper, who had helped build Dneprestroi, and Mr. Morgan, an engineer who participated in the construction of the Moscow subway, were awarded Soviet decorations. Mr. Morgan visited the Soviet Union later and said that he was building housing in Turkey. However, it was known to the Soviet Union that in [Page 181] fact he was building bases there, but this is a matter for his own conscience. Ideologically, our two countries are at opposite poles but this should not prevent them from ensuring a better future for their peoples. Mr. Khrushchev then raised his glass to the Presidentʼs health and said that he envied the President because he was so young. Mr. Khrushchev said that if he were the Presidentʼs age, he would devote even more energy to his cause. Nevertheless, even at 67, he was not renouncing the competition. Mr. Khrushchev concluded by saying that he and the President had met well and that he was sure that they would part even better.
PARTICIPANTS:
-
United States
- The President
- The Secretary
- Ambassador Matthews
- Ambassador Thompson
- Mr. Bundy
- Ambassador Bohlen
- EUR—Mr. Kohler
- Mr. Nitze
- Mr. Salinger
- D—Mr. Akalovsky (interpreting)
-
USSR
- Chairman Khrushchev
- Foreign Minister Gromyko
- Ambassador Avilov, Ambassador to Austria
- Ambassador Menshikov
- Mr. Troyanovsky, Personal Assistant to Chairman Khrushchev
- Mr. Dobrynin, Chief, American Countries Division, USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs
- Mr. Molochkov, Chief of Protocol, USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs
- Mr. Kharlamov, Chief, Press Division, USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs
- Mr. Pahlin, Deputy Chief of the German-Austrian Division of the Soviet Foreign Ministry
- Mr. Sukhodrev, Interpreter,USSR Ministry of Foreign Affairs