146. Memorandum of Conversation0
SUBJECT
- Interview with Senator Hertz
PARTICIPANTS
- Douglas Dillon, Acting Secretary
- Whelm G. Grewe, German Ambassador
- Paul Hertz, Berlin Senator for Economic Affairs
- Alfred G. Vigderman, GER
Senator Hertz thanked the Acting Secretary for his recent speech on Berlin and Germany.1 He went on to comment on the Chancellor’s proposal for a plebiscite in West Berlin. It was the Senat’s view, said Senator Hertz, that while a plebiscite might one day be useful, it would be wrong to hold one now. In the first place, the voters of West Berlin had expressed themselves most forcefully on the side of the West when they last had an opportunity to vote on December 7, 1958.2 They had another opportunity, which they took the best advantage of, in connection with the demonstration on May 1, 1960, to show where their sentiments lay. The Berliners know that dangerous times still lie ahead of them, and that the forthcoming negotiations with the Russians will be difficult, but they are quite prepared for what lies ahead.
Senator Hertz explained that he had come to the United States at Governing Mayor Brandt’s instance. On the same mission, the Mayor [Page 377] had sent Senator Lipschitz to Paris and Mayor Amrehn to London. The task of all three Berlin officials was to express the Berlin Government’s confidence in the attitude of the West and to use the visits as an indication to the Berlin population of that undiminished confidence. The Berliners’: frame of mind was one of calmness, firmness and confidence.
The Acting Secretary replied that he had been happy to make the speech to which Senator Hertz had alluded. Our policy had been expressed in the speech in language which all could understand. It had been approved before delivery by the Secretary and the White House.
The Acting Secretary, at Senator Hertz’s request, described the accusations concerning the violation of Soviet air space made by Khrushchev in his speech of today.3 We assumed that the plane which he alluded to as having been shot down was one of our weather sampling planes which was missing under circumstances which suggested it was the plane referred to. The Acting Secretary said that Congress was already reflecting the general indignation that our unarmed and helpless planes should be shot down when we were exerting ourselves to rescue Soviet sailors from shipwreck.
Senator Hertz then referred to the favorable economic developments in 1959 in Berlin which could be ascribed to the generally favorable world economic conditions, aid from the Federal Republic and other sources, and the hard work and good morale of the Berlin population. If there were no interference with traffic to and from Berlin, the upward trend in Berlin economic conditions could be expected to continue.
He went on to hope that the West would not have to make any concessions which would endanger the liberty of the Berliners. The Acting Secretary assured him that no one has the slightest intention of doing that. When Senator Hertz wondered how long the present situation might continue, the Acting Secretary speculated that we might have to live with Communist pressure in varying forms for perhaps twenty or thirty years. Senator Hertz replied that if we can maintain the present economic situation in Berlin, and keep the spirits of the Berliners high, all Communist efforts will be in vain. He said that the Communists had recently taken to publishing a daily newspaper in West Berlin. It had a very small circulation and no influence whatsoever.
- Source: Department of State, Secretary’s Memoranda of Conversation: Lot 64 D199. Confidential. Drafted by Vigderman and approved in U on May 11.↩
- See Document 130.↩
- West Berlin elections took place on December 7, 1958.↩
- For text of Khrushchev’s May 5 speech to the Supreme Soviet of the U.S.S.R., see American Foreign Policy: Current Documents, 1960, pp. 409–412.↩