740A.13/3–1351
Memorandum of Conversation, by the Director of the Office of British Commonwealth and Northern European Affairs (Raynor)
Subject: Call of Minister for External Affairs, Sean MacBride
| Participants: | Minister for External Affairs Sean MacBride of Ireland |
| The Secretary | |
| Mr. Raynor, Director, BNA |
Mr. MacBride, Minister for External Affairs of Ireland made a courtesy call on me this morning. He is in the United States on an unofficial visit primarily for the purpose of delivering a St. Patrick’s Day address in Philadelphia. After the usual exchange of amenities, the Minister indicated he wanted to discuss a few questions with me.
The Struggle Against Communism. The Minister stated that as he saw this problem the fight was being waged on three fronts: (a) [Page 517] military and defense; (b) economic; (c) moral basis. He expressed the view that good progress was being made on the first two categories but there had not been much success in laying the appropriate moral base to capture men’s minds.
I expressed interest in the latter comment stating that it was one I heard frequently and one to which I had given considerable thought. I encouraged the Minister to spell out what he meant in more detail. He replied that there had been nothing which had captured the imagination of the mind of the common man in Western Europe since Wilson’s fourteen points which was still remembered and, in fact, impressed many not born at the time he made them. He said the Atlantic Charter had not had the same effect. He said he had thought of raising this in the Council of Europe but had not done so feeling that it was a matter in which United States initiative was needed.
I referred to the difficulties of drafting a universal declaration. I spoke of the differences in viewpoint in the West and in Asia and differences in Asia between countries.
The Minister said that he thought it was very important to have something to which Asia could subscribe, especially India. He said that as he saw it the problem was to find something in which men could have faith. He said this wasn’t a problem in his own country where religion was especially strong but in countries such as France where many believed in very little, it was a serious problem. He said it was especially important when one realized that fanatic believers in Communism regarded Communism practically as a religion.
I repeated that this was a matter which interested me greatly. I said it was something we had worked on a great deal and that Mr. Barrett [ Garrett?] had given it considerable attention. Also Mr. Benton. I said I felt that what might develop in this field would have to be the product of a few men, that you would never get a satisfactory declaration, for instance, from an international drafting group composed of representatives of a number of countries. I said that I intended to give further consideration to the question and very much valued the views which the Minister had expressed to me.
Partition. The Minister then said he wished to refer to the old question of partition which in his country was an explosive one. He said it not only soured Irish relations with the United Kingdom but raised difficult internal problems. During his presentation he made the claim that the people of three of the northern counties favored uniting with the south. He said he thought this kind of a situation was a bad thing to have in the midst of the Atlantic community. He said he thought there was an increase in the realization of this [Page 518] point of view even in London but that he did not think that, by itself, the United Kingdom would do anything about it. He expressed the view that if the United States were to encourage the United Kingdom to do something results would flow from such a step.
I said that I had always regarded the problem as one which should be decided by his Government, the United Kingdom and the people of the northern counties. He replied that he realized this was a difficult question for me but he thought it was a shame that there was not some forum in the Atlantic community where a dispute of this nature could be discussed and settled. I readily assented to his statement that this was a very difficult problem for me.
Military Assistance. Mr. MacBride then said he wished to say a few words on the subject of the desirability of some military assistance being provided for Ireland. He said Ireland formerly received a modest supply from the United Kingdom but had received nothing for the past two years. I inquired if he felt this were due to the present shortage situation and he admitted it might be but said he thought the matter had political implications. He said under present conditions Ireland was unable to defend itself and that his people had the will to defend themselves against Communist aggression.
I asked Mr. Raynor if this problem had been considered here. Mr. Raynor stated that it had been reviewed from time to time and then made an observation as to the great demands being made upon this country from many sources for military assistance. I made the observation that in view of the present expansion of military production perhaps the Irish would find it possible again to receive some supplies from the United Kingdom.