IO Files: USGA/Gen 30/Conv 12
Minutes by the United States Delegation of the Five-Power Informal Meeting, Held at London, Foreign Office, January 9, 1946, 3:30 p.m.29
- Present:
Sir Alexander Cadogan opened the meeting by speaking favorably of the qualifications of Monsieur Spaak. He dwelt upon Spaak’s [Page 142] experience as presiding officer, mentioning in particular his serving in that capacity at the Brussels Conference.39 Ambassador Gromyko then said that in preliminary conversations held before he had returned to Moscow there had been two names mentioned, Spaak and Lie. He said the Soviet Delegation now has a definite view in favor of Lie.
Ambassador Koo said that he still felt that either of the two men mentioned would be acceptable, although perhaps on the basis of personal fitness Spaak might be preferable.
Mr. Stevenson said that his position was somewhat like that of Ambassador Koo. He said that he had been the first to mention Mr. Lie but that the disposition of the United States Delegation was to try to reach agreement on this matter with the other delegations. Other delegations including those of the American Republics in their conversations with him have expressed a marked preference for Spaak.
Monsieur Paul-Boncour remarked that Spaak is very experienced as presiding officer.
Ambassador Gromyko then said that he could not accept Spaak and that the Soviet Union has a very definite opinion in favor of Lie. He said he could not consider retreating from his position and that he felt confident that if the five were unanimously to agree upon Lie he could be easily elected.
The discussion then passed to the selection of members of the General Committee of the Assembly. There was general agreement that five of the Vice-Presidencies would be filled by representatives of the permanent members of the Security Council. Mr. Stevenson proposed that representatives of Poland and Venezuela might be elected to fill the other two Vice-Presidencies. He explained that the choice of the delegations from the other American Republics for this position was Venezuela.
Ambassador Gromyko expressed agreement in principle with this view and Ambassador Koo and Monsieur Paul-Boncour also agreed.
At Sir Alexander Cadogan’s suggestion there was then specific agreement on Venezuela for one of the Vice-Presidencies. Sir Alexander then asked for similar agreement with respect to Poland. At this point Ambassador Gromyko said he would like to discuss this matter in connection with the Presidency of the Second Session of the General Assembly. He inquired whether the others would agree to Poland receiving that position.
Sir Alexander Cadogan replied that he had not thought about this matter but he found it difficult to commit himself a year in advance. He [Page 143] inquired how this matter affected the question of Poland’s selection as a Vice-President now.
Ambassador Gromyko replied that if the selection of Poland as Vice-President now would prejudice her election at the next session he might wish to suggest Yugoslavia instead of Poland as a Vice-President now. Sir Charles Webster said that if Poland were now selected as Vice-President it would not prejudice Poland’s candidacy for President of the next session.
Mr. Stevenson expressed his agreement with this point of view.
Ambassador Gromyko then said that he thought the question he had just raised with respect to Poland also would affect the choice of the President of the present session. If Western Europe were to have a representative now, Eastern Europe might be granted a representative at the next session. Mr. Stevenson said that he thought such a proposal was worthy of consideration but he did not think it would be profitable to talk in terms of particular countries. Sir Alexander Cadogan said that it is not possible to say now who will be foreign minister of Poland at the time of the next session. Gromyko at this point agreed to the selection of Poland as a Vice-President at the current session and Paul-Boncour also agreed. Ambassador Koo said that he attached importance to the principle of geographic representation and that he thought there should be at least some rough general rotation of the Presidency, although he recognized that the individual selected was also a matter of importance. With this observation he expressed his agreement to the selection of Poland for Vice-President at the present time.
Sir Alexander Cadogan then brought up the subject of chairmen of committees, pointing out that they also will be members of the General Committee. Ambassador Gromyko said that before proceeding with this subject he wished to point out that the President of the Preparatory Commission had been an American (i.e., from the American Continent), and that the two parts of the first session of the General Assembly are really two sessions, both of which would be presided over by a Western European, whether Spaak or Lie is elected. He said that he wished to make himself clear and that he wished to know the opinion of the others present with respect to the selection of Poland for President of the Second Session. He suggested perhaps two countries might be mentioned in view of the suggestion that we could not be sure who would be foreign minister of Poland at the time of the next session. Cadogan said that he was willing to go so far as to say some geographic rotation would be desirable if a suitable candidate could be found. Mr. Stevenson expressed his agreement with this statement. Paul-Boncour said he thought Ambassador Koo’s suggestion was wise and met Ambassador Gromyko’s point of view.
[Page 144]The discussion then proceeded to the selection of committee chairman. Mr. Stevenson suggested a representative of Norway as Chairman of the first Committee if Norway is not elected President of the General Assembly, in which event perhaps a representative of one of the Dominions might be selected, perhaps New Zealand. Cadogan said he thought Mr. Fraser, Prime Minister of New Zealand, might be made Chairman of the Trusteeship Committee as he had presided over that Committee in San Francisco. Mr. Stevenson thought it might be desirable to have someone for that Committee who came from a country not interested in trusteeship, for example, a Latin American. Ambassador Gromyko said that he could not recommend Norway as Chairman of Committee 1 as he wants Mr. Lie to be President of the General Assembly. Mr. Stevenson then read the rest of the United States slate, namely, Australia for Committee 2, Czechoslovakia for Committee 3, Panama for Committee 4, Syria for Committee 5, and Uruguay for Committee 6. Sir Alexander Cadogan in turn read a British list which proposed Uruguay for Committee 1, the Ukraine for Committee 2, a Latin American State for Committee 3, New Zealand for Committee 4, Canada for Committee 5, and Egypt for Committee 6.
Ambassador Gromyko said that he had no objection to Fraser personally and that he felt Fraser had been a good Chairman at San Francisco, but that he thought it undesirable to have a representative of New Zealand be Chairman of this Committee. He proposed that the Ukraine be given the Chairmanship of the first Committee. He also expressed doubt as to the desirability of Panama being given the Trusteeship Committee Chairmanship. He expressed no objection to the United States proposals with respect to Committees 5 and 6.
Ambassador Koo remarked that the vast Asiatic Continent had been left out altogether. At this point it was suggested that the posts of Vice-Chairman be considered simultaneously and Mr. Stevenson read the United States list, i.e., Yugoslavia for Committee 1, Iran for Committee 2, Costa Rica for Committee 3, Denmark for Committee 4, New Zealand for Committee 5, and South Africa for Committee 6.
Sir Alexander Cadogan then read the British list as follows: Byelo-Russia for Committee 1, Chile for Committee 2, Denmark for Committee 3, South Africa for Committee 4, Turkey for Committee 5, and Cuba for Committee 6.
Cadogan suggested that agreement now be attempted on the Chairmanship of the first Committee and Paul-Boncour said that either the Ukraine or Uruguay would be satisfactory to him. Ambassador Koo suggested that Mr. Fraser of New Zealand would be an excellent choice. Mr. Stevenson said that he would be prepared to accept Uruguay, and that although he recognized that Mr. Manuilsky had been a [Page 145] good Chairman during the Preparatory Commission he had some reservation in his mind as to whether a representative of one of the constituent Republics should be Chairman of this Committee. Ambassador Gromyko said that he would like to know Mr. Stevenson’s reason for this position. In reply Mr. Stevenson said he was thinking largely of the appearance of things. At this point Sir Alexander Cadogan said he would accept Mr. Manuilsky as Chairman of Committe 1. Mr. Stevenson continued that he thought it would be wise for the Chairman of this Committee not to have too close a connection with any of the great powers and Ambassador Gromyko then inquired as to what he would say to the proposal that one of the British Dominions or a Latin American State be given the Chairmanship of this Committee. Ambassador Koo said he did not think it important whether a Dominion or a constituent Republic was given the Chairmanship. He thought that either Fraser or Manuilsky would be a very able Chairman and he said that either would be acceptable to him. He added that from what he knew of the experience of McEachen of Uruguay40 as chairman of a committee of the Preparatory Commission he thought he would be very good, but that Mr. McEachen had not had as much experience as the other two. Mr. Stevenson said that his order of preference of the three men mentioned was Mr. Fraser, Mr. McEachen, and Mr. Manuilsky. Both Paul-Boncour and Ambassador Koo, in reply to specific inquiries from Sir Alexander Cadogan, said they would agree that Norway would be a good choice for this position if Mr. Lie were not elected President of the General Assembly.
The discussion then proceeded to the Chairmanship of Committee 2, and Ambassador Koo recommended India or Iran “for Asiatic reasons”. Monsieur Paul-Boncour said that Mudaliar41 had been very competent as a chairman, both at San Francisco and in the Preparatory Commission. Ambassador Gromyko replied that Mudaliar was a very able man but that he had some doubt as to perpetuating his chairmanship of an economic committee. He suggested the possibility of Denmark. Mr. Stevenson pointed out that another Western European state would upset the balance of the General Committee, remarking that dependent upon the outcome of the election of President of the General Assembly Mr. Lie might be Chairman of Committee 1.
The discussion then proceeded to the Chairmanship of Committee 3. Ambassador Gromyko suggested a Latin American. Ambassador Koo and Sir Alexander Cadogen said they would accept Czechoslovakia for this post. Ambassador Gromyko said he would agree to this if the [Page 146] Ukraine were accepted for the first Committee. Mr. Paul-Boncour said he would agree to Czechoslovakia for Committee 3.
With respect to Committee 4 Monsieur Paul-Boncour agreed with the suggestion of New Zealand. Ambassador Koo suggested Colombia but Mr. Stevenson thought that the Latin American States would not agree in as much as Mr. Zuleta of Colombia had been President of the Preparatory Commission. Ambassador Gromyko said he thought Panama was not a good choice for Committee 4.
With respect to Committee 5 Monsieur Paul-Boncour accepted Canada. Ambassador Gromyko said he would agree to either Syria or one of the Dominions subject to the solution of the question of the Chairmanship of Committee 1. He said that he would like to think further about this matter. Ambassador Koo suggested Iran for Committee 5.
As to Committee 6 Ambassador Gromyko said he would agree to Uruguay subject to the decision with respect to the Chairmanship of Committee 1. He also suggested the possibility of Egypt for Committee 6.
The discussion then proceeded to the non-permanent members of the Security Council and Ambassador Gromyko remarked that as he had said before he left for Moscow42 he favored the following slate: Poland for two years; Brazil for two years; Canada for two years; Syria, Belgium and Norway each for one year.
Mr. Stevenson read the United States list of Canada, Brazil and the Netherlands each for two year terms; Mexico, Poland and Egypt each for one year terms.
Monsieur Fouques Duparc suggested Brazil, the Netherlands or Belgium, Poland, Egypt or Iran, Mexico and Canada.
Ambassador Koo suggested Brazil, Canada, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Iran and Mexico.
Sir Alexander Cadogan said that he did not have the British list with him.
There was agreement among all present upon Brazil and Canada. Sir Alexander Cadogan then inquired whether it was necessary to have two Latin American States in the Security Council and Mr. Stevenson replied in the affirmative. Cadogan then pointed out that Brazil and Mexico appeared on all the lists except the Soviet list. Ambassador Gromyko thought it would be fairer to have only Brazil on the Council as otherwise there would be four states from North America. He also argued that if both Brazil and Mexico were to be elected, the Council would be unbalanced after their terms had expired (implying that [Page 147] two smaller Latin American States would not be properly representative from a security point of view).
(At this point Sir Alexander Cadogan left the meeting and returned with the British list which was identical with the United States list.)
Ambassador Koo asked Sir Alexander Cadogan if the British included the Netherlands on their list instead of Belgium on the assumption that Monsieur Spaak of Belgium would be President of the General Assembly. Sir Alexander replied in the affirmative.
Ambassador Gromyko said that he thought the Netherlands should first make peace at home and then take care of the peace of other countries.43
The meeting then adjourned, agreeing to meet again at ten o’clock the next morning.
- Drafted by Alger Hiss, Principal Adviser on the United States Delegation.↩
- Permanent Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, British Foreign Office, and a Principal Adviser to the United Kingdom Delegation.↩
- Special Adviser to the Minister of State (Noel-Baker) and a Principal Adviser to the United Kingdom Delegation.↩
- Chinese Ambassador to the United Kingdom; Head of the Chinese Delegation.↩
- Chinese Ambassador to France; Representative on the Chinese Delegation.↩
- Representative on the Delegation of the Soviet Union.↩
- Representative on the Delegation of the Soviet Union.↩
- Interpreter for the Delegation of the Soviet Union.↩
- Former President of the French Council of Ministers; Representative on the French Delegation.↩
- Minister Plenipotentiary, Director of the International Conferences Secretariat at the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs; a Principal Adviser to the French Delegation.↩
- Refers presumably to the Nine-Power Conference held at Brussels, November 3–24, 1937 regarding Far Eastern Affairs. Mr. Spaak was Chairman of the Conference.↩
- Dr. Roberto E. MacEachen, Uruguayan Ambassador to the United Kingdom and Head of the Uruguayan Delegation.↩
- Sir Ramaswami Mudaliar, Member of the Executive Council of the Governor-General of India; Head of the Government of India’s Delegation.↩
- That is, at the conclusion of the meeting of the Preparatory Commission late in December, 1945.↩
- Possibly a reference to the situation in the Netherlands East Indies.↩