Foreign Relations of the United States, Diplomatic Papers, 1938, General, Volume I

840.48 Refugees/1037: Telegram

The Ambassador in the United Kingdom (Kennedy) to the Secretary of State

London, December 3, 1938—6 p.m.
[Received December 3—3:10 p.m.]

1391. [From Rublee.] The meeting was held throughout the day Friday.⁷⁶ There were present Winterton, Taylor, Berenger, Andreae, Le Breton and Lobo with their technical assistants. Lobo had not received his instructions and came from Geneva on his own initiative following my personal message to him.

1. I opened the proceedings by making my report informally. I gave details of the three aspects of my problem: (1) the negotiation with Germany; (2) the negotiations with the countries of settlement, and (3) short term plans in the countries of refuge. I need not give you the details of this report since it followed essentially the substance of my 1355 of November 25, 10 a.m.⁷⁷

2. Mr. Taylor followed with a detailed account of what our Government, the President’s Advisory Committee, and private persons in the United States were doing and planning in behalf of refugees. He told the Committee of the President’s attitude toward extending temporary visitors’ visas and spoke in very general terms of the plans for an international corporation to aid refugees. He laid emphasis on the fact that recent relations with Germany presented a mosaic and stressed that the Committee must have definite information with regard to the number and character of persons in Germany who must be emigrated. He concluded by stating that consideration has been given to the fact whether our Government, in case Mr. Rublee is successful in accomplishing his definite object, would be in a position to make a grant to assist refugees. He cautioned that although there was no telling how it might be handled by Congress, a contribution of this sort might be considered if a real solution could be found.

3. Berenger once again spoke of the number of refugees France had received in recent years and of the various steps which had been taken in their behalf. He said that France had examined the situation in their colonies to determine if a contribution might be made towards the settlement of refugees, and it had been decided that if all the other participating Governments in the Evian Committee would make a specific contribution, France would consider the settlement in Madagascar and New Caledonia of 10,000 persons but not persons of German origin. In other words France would settle in its colonies 10,000 refugees from other countries and would absorb in the metropolitan area 10,000 German refugees who, Berenger said, had crossed the frontier illegally in the last few weeks and were now lodged in various jails. He explained that they could not settle Germans in the colonies or mandated territories because the Government in Germany might change and then they would have a minority problem on their hands.

4. Berenger then said that it had been agreed in the meeting between Daladier and Chamberlain⁷⁸ that when Ribbentrop came to Paris next Monday Bonnet⁷⁹ should take up with him and discuss the details of a plan whereby involuntary emigrants from Germany might take with them approximately 20% of their property. Berenger said that Bonnet was prepared to carry out this agreement. It appeared from remarks made by British officials after the meeting that Berenger’s statement was an indiscretion and that the fact of the conversation between Bonnet and Ribbentrop should not have been revealed.

5. Berenger purported to quote Chamberlain as discussing an alternative financial plan in some detail, should Germany prove unwilling to allow the refugees 20% of their property, which would involve an international loan upon the security of Jewish property in Germany. With regard to this Berenger observed that France could not consider the idea of an international loan on behalf of refugees. He said that he had taken this up in Paris with various financial personages and that the conclusion was unanimous that the flotation of a loan of this nature was out of the question.

6. Winterton spoke briefly to the effect that the British Government could not approve or disapprove the idea of an international loan at this time. He believed however that in view of the imminence of the negotiation with Germany it was very dangerous to discuss action by the Evian Governments of a financial nature in behalf of refugees since it was still his belief that the major contribution should be made by Germany.

7. Le Breton closed the morning session with a repetition of his Government’s views that they could only take agricultural settlers and in any event he said he was unable to make a specific statement on behalf of his Government. He emphasized his belief that no financial contribution would ever be secured from Germany, that the Committee should proceed on this premise and should urgently consider how each immigrant might be assured a minimum of pounds 200.

8. At the afternoon session Lobo explained that he had come on his own initiative, that he had no instruction from [his] Government and that he was not therefore in a position to make a specific statement. He said that there had been difficulties with the German immigration to Brazil and feeling was very strong against admitting large numbers of people although he could record the fact that a petition of students to the Government had recently advocated the admission of refugees. In conclusion he referred to the fact that new laws relating to immigration would come into effect on the first of the year and that the admission of persons would depend to a greater extent on the Executive.

9. Andreae expressed opposition to the idea of an international loan for refugees and in any event said that it was not a question which the Evian Committee should properly take up. He revealed that his Government had been studying the possibilities of settlement of refugees in their overseas possessions and had found certain openings for a small scale settlement possibly to the extent of 100 families in Surinam. However, a large amount of capital would be necessary for this enterprise and it depended on how much money the Jewish organizations and individuals could produce. The remainder of Andreae’s statement dealt with the difficulties which the Netherlands Government was facing with regard to transmigrants.

10. Winterton closed the general remarks by repeating the details as to the British contribution made in the House of Commons recently by the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary, referred to the fact that 200 Jewish children had arrived that day and more would follow running into many thousands, and mentioned that the Australian Government had announced the day before that it would accept 5000 refugees annually for the next 3 years. Winterton went in some details into the Guiana project, said that it would comprise 40,000 square miles instead of 10,000 as mentioned in Parliament and said that the British Jewish organizations were making a plan to begin a survey at once.

At this point Mr. Taylor asked the French and Dutch representatives whether their Governments would be willing to contribute in the Guianas as well as the British. Berenger and Andreae replied in the negative.

11. Winterton concluded his statement by telling what the British Government had done in Palestine emphasizing that the British had offered the Jews a national home in Palestine, not Palestine as a national home for the Jews, and said that further action taken with regard to Palestine was contingent upon the conference which had been called by McDonald.

12. At this point I raised the question which had been causing considerable confusion in the efforts to relieve the deplorable situation of the refugees. The Evian resolution defines my mandate as, first, negotiation with the German Government, and second, negotiation with the countries of settlement to find a solution of the refugee problem. The claim is made that the resolution indicates that persons who have left Germany but who have not found a final place of settlement are in my charge. These people are clearly in the charge of the League High Commissioner. The question of duplication of mandate causes very considerable confusion among the workers for the refugees and causes me embarrassment because these people and the refugees themselves believe that I am responsible for a solution of the problem in the countries of refuge and that I should make recommendations and take steps to improve the situation. I asked the officers for a clarification of this point in order that I might know whether I was to be held responsible for the intermediate stage of refuge or whether it was to be the responsibility of the League High Commissioner, and in short, just what their desires were. A very heated discussion followed in which Berenger, Andreae and Winterton indicated that they wished no interference with what their Governments were doing and that in fact they wished both the League High Commissioner and myself to keep out of this situation. I said that I was satisfied as a result of this discussion that the officers did not wish me to have any responsibility in this matter and that henceforth I should consider that I was relieved of this responsibility. Winterton suggested as a compromise that he would call a meeting with Emerson and Malcolm.

13. The Committee then took up the question of the new meeting and it was felt that in view of the imminence of the negotiation with Germany that it would be wise to put it off until January. Lobo, who agreed with this decision, stressed that an opportunity would thus be given for Secretary Hull to bring the matter up at the Lima Conference where the Foreign Ministers of the Latin American Republics would be present. Lobo once again emphasized the great importance of the action Secretary Hull might take at the Lima Conference [with] the representative of his Government, and of course with the representatives of the other Governments, when he came to see us this morning.

14. The final matter that came before the meeting was the request of the Polish Government, made through the Polish Ambassador, here to Winterton, at Paris to Berenger and at Washington to Mr. Taylor, that Poland be given an opportunity to present its case to a meeting of the Committee, in particular the situation of the Jews who have been forced to leave Germany but whom the Polish Government does not recognize as citizens of Poland. The general consensus of the meeting was that the Poles should not be admitted and that the Jews whose citizenship is in question between the Poles and the German Government should not be included within the scope of the Committee’s action. It was agreed that Winterton should inform the Polish Ambassador that it was not within the competence of the meeting of the officers to reach a decision on this question. [Rublee.]

Kennedy

76. December 2.
77. Not printed.
78. The President of the French Council of Ministers and the British Prime Minister conferred in Paris on November 23.
79. Georges Bonnet, French Minister for Foreign Affairs.