740.00/216
Memorandum by the Secretary of State of a Conversation With the Ambassador of the Soviet Union (Troyanovsky)
The Ambassador came in to pay his respects after a protracted visit in Russia, and he had nothing especially new in mind.48 He spoke of the bad international situation, and I replied that the situation is bad and that the nations inclined to be lawless are still going forward upon the assumption and even in the belief that they will not in any way be interfered with by peacefully disposed nations. I said that, as he was aware, for nearly four years this Government has been striving to prevail upon other governments, especially those standing for peace, to organize and unify themselves behind a basic program for the restoration of peaceful and normal international relationships and world order generally; that it has been virtually impossible thus far to induce many of them to proceed actively and cooperatively in this direction; that each government seems to have a microscope and to be devoting its time to looking about for penny advantages in cutthroat, bilateral trading, utterly oblivious and indifferent to the world situation either present or prospective; that this state of affairs is all that a lawless nation desires, and that we can visualize clearly the steady expansion of international lawlessness as a result. I then emphasized the fact by saying that the situation is well illustrated by the experience of his country and mine, who have been standing apart in almost every real cooperative way on account of a trivial, measly, insignificant item of indebtedness. I said that since desperado-inclined nations see two great countries, like his and mine, floating along for a period of years on account of that sort of a trifling item of difference, while burying their great combined moral influence for peace and order, it is not surprising that international lawlessness is rapidly growing. The Ambassador remarked that if they could know what Great Britain has in mind to do they would be in a better situation to take active steps or adopt concrete policies. I replied that that was exactly what each peaceful country was saying about the other, namely, that none of these countries seemed to be disposed to do anything, that the people of none of them are willing to do anything affirmatively, and that that again is all the assurance desperado nations want. I said that I was [Page 397] not referring to any policy which would involve military force or economic coercion; that I was referring to the creation of a combination of all possible moral and other influences which would be calculated to outlaw war, which would make war utterly abhorrent, and would exalt peace, and so forth and so forth.
The Ambassador made some reference to the present spy situation, as he termed it, in Russia. I remarked that as a matter of curiosity I would be interested to know why it was and how it was that all of these accused persons spontaneously rose up before the tribunal trying them and fairly shouted their own personal guilt, when they knew it would mean death, and then proceeded to censure themselves almost as much as the prosecutor. He said he had thought about that himself and had made some inquiry; that he had been informed that many of these disloyal persons were associated together in their treasonable acts and over a period of time after being subjected to long sessions of cross-questioning, with steady increases in the numbers of contradictions which the utterances of each resulted in with respect to others, their spirit would finally give away. He then added that very amazing facts had been brought out and they would be so considered if and when made public. I remarked that in this country my observation had been that most criminals guilty of a capital offense never confessed, and if and when they did it was in most all instances after their conviction and when they started into the room for electrocution. The Ambassador replied that he had talked with Mr. Hoover of the Department of Justice, who informed him that most of such criminals did actually confess. I said that this at least was not in accordance with my experience or my observation, although I would not place it against Mr. Hoover’s experience and observation.
- Previously, on October 22, 1937, the Ambassador had a conversation of quite similar content with Under Secretary Welles, with some general discussion about Spain. The memorandum of this conversation is not printed.↩