793.003/5578/9
Memorandum by the Minister in China (Johnson)84
Sir Miles Lampson, British Minister, called and said to me in strictest confidence that the question of legal guarantees having now been substantially cleared away he had decided that the moment had come when he should seek a personal interview with the Minister for Foreign Affairs for the purpose of finding out just where both governments stood in regard to the vital principles involved. He said that he had therefore seen the Foreign Minister at 8 a.m. this morning. He told the Minister for Foreign Affairs that as the latter was leaving Nanking and he was leaving Nanking also within the next three days he thought it wise that they have a personal conversation and lay their cards on the table so that they could see where both countries [Page 785] stood. He said that the British people placed a great deal of importance on the question of criminal jurisdiction. They were reluctant to see British nationals placed under the criminal jurisdiction of the Chinese courts. He, himself put more weight on civil jurisdiction where the great mass of British interests and trade would be affected, but unfortunately his Government felt differently on the subject and was firm in its intention that criminal jurisdiction should not be given up. Nevertheless he thought that it might be possible to bring the British Government to a conciliatory point of view in regard to this point, provided the Chinese Government were willing to make concessions in the matter of reserved areas. He was very anxious to know where the Minister for Foreign Affairs stood in this matter.
Dr. Wang stated that the Government’s policy in regard to these questions had been laid before the Political Council which had decided that it could not make concessions in regard to co-judges, reservation of criminal jurisdiction or reserved areas.
Sir Miles stated that they discussed this matter at some length and that finally Dr. Wang stated that four areas were too many to be reserved. He thought that something might be possible in regard to Shanghai. Dr. Wang also stated that the Government would object strenuously to a 50 li zone as being too wide or to the mention of the Customs House at Shanghai in such a connection as this might lead others to stipulate for railway zones, et cetera, as being the centers of reserved areas.
British Minister informed Dr. Wang that of course the mere reservation of Shanghai was not good enough insofar as his instructions and the attitude of his Government were concerned; that the reservation of these areas had nothing whatsoever to do with politics, international or domestic. He did not see why Dr. Wang could not persuade his colleagues of this. These places were the points where large numbers of Americans had congregated for purposes of business and residence and no political complications could follow the reservation of these areas from Chinese jurisdiction. Dr. Wang repeated that four areas were too many but that he hoped it might be possible to meet the British Minister at least part way in the matter of Shanghai. Sir Miles stated that the mere reservation of Shanghai was not sufficient to meet the situation. The Foreign Minister replied that this would appear to deadlock the negotiations; that unless the matter was settled by May 5th there would be a great deal of trouble as the people had fixed their minds upon a settlement.
Sir Miles informed me that he told the Minister for Foreign Affairs that if he took that stand the responsibility for deadlocking the discussions must rest squarely with the Chinese as the British Government was ready and willing and anxious to negotiate for a mutually [Page 786] acceptable understanding on the whole question. He pointed out that the Chinese were rushing the matter in a way not customary among governments. He said he realized that the situation would be complicated but he must realize that foreigners would not be alone in any difficulties that might arise.
Sir Miles told me that he besought Dr. Wang to remember that he himself was without any personal ambition in this matter; that if it could be settled why so much the better, but if not it would make little difference to him. He hoped the Minister for Foreign Affairs would realize that both governments were trying to build a bridge which would safely carry both countries from the present to the new situation and that it was for the Chinese to do its share in the building as the bridge was being built from both sides.
- Copy transmitted to the Department by the Minister without covering despatch; received June 11. Substance reported to the Department by the Minister in pars. 1 to 8, inclusive, of telegram dated March 30, 11 a.m., from Nanking, infra.↩