Paris Peace Conf. 180.03501/73
HD–73
Notes of a Meeting of the Heads of Delegations of the Five Great Powers Held in M. Pichon’s Room at the Quai d’Orsay, Paris, on Monday, October 20, 1919, at 10:30 a.m.
- Present
- America, United States of
- Hon. F. L. Polk
- Secretary
- Mr. L. Harrison
- British Empire
- Sir Eyre Crowe
- Secretary
- Mr. H. Norman
- France
- M. Pichon
- Secretaries
- M. Dutasta
- M. Berthelot
- M. de Percin
- Italy
- M. Tittoni
- Secretaries
- M. Paterno
- Don Aseanio Oolonna
- Japan
- M. Matsui
- Secretary
- M. Kawai
- America, United States of
Joint Secretariat | |
America, United States of | Capt. G. A. Gordon |
British Empibe | Capt. G. Lothian Small |
France | M. Massigli |
Italy | M. Zanchi |
Interpreter—M. Mantoux |
The following were also present for the items in which they were concerned:
- America, United States of
- General Bliss
- Dr. J. B. Scott
- Capt. B. Winthrop
- British Empire
- Gen. Sackville-West
- Mr. Groves
- Mr. Fuller
- Mr. A. Leeper
- Mr. Malkin
- France
- General Belin
- General Le Rond
- M. Tirard
- Colonel Roye
- M. Fromageot
- M. Escoffier
- Italy
- M. Ricci-Busatti
- Gen. Cavallero
- Japan
- M. Shigemitsu
1. M. Pichon desired to refer to the minutes of the meeting of the Council of October 16th (See H. D. 71, Minute 1),1 and read the following, question of Mr. Polk (English Text, page 5): Reference to HD–71, Minute 1, October 16, 1919
“Mr. Polk said that he hoped that the matter could be cleared up. He wished to ask whether the rifles were to be delivered to the Hungarian police at the present time and whether the Roumanian forces were to withdraw at the present time, whatever the Government in Hungary might be.
M. Pichon replied in the affirmative.”
He stated that he wished to make his position clear in this respect. He meant that he agreed that the rifles in question were to be delivered to the Hungarian gendarmerie at the present time, but with reference to the withdrawal of the Roumanians he felt that this matter should wait upon the receipt of a reply to the Council’s note to the Roumanian Government2 and upon the report to be made by Sir George Clerk. He felt that this was the sense of the whole discussion.
Mr. Polk said that he understood that the Council and the Allied Generals had already directed the Roumanians to withdraw and that, therefore, there was no reason to have their withdrawal wait upon the receipt of a reply to the Council’s note to the Roumanian Government, or upon a report from Sir George Clerk.
M. Pichon said that he only wanted to make his own opinion clear.
Mr. Polk desired to ascertain the Council’s opinion. The Allied Generals had directed the Roumanians to withdraw and they had been supported in this action by the Council.
Sir Eyre Crowe observed that a demand for withdrawal was contained in the note sent to the Roumanian Government and that the Council were awaiting an answer thereto.
M. Pichon replied that this was so, but thought that it was important to receive the reply of the Roumanian Government in order to know what it would be most practical to do.
Mr. Polk pointed out that the Roumanians had been directed to withdraw prior to the sending of the note. He read from the minutes of the meeting the question asked by him, above referred to, and explained that what he meant was that it was the duty of the Roumanians to withdraw at once without waiting for any conference with Sir George Clerk.
2. (The Council had before it a draft communication of the Supreme Council to the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government relative to the [Page 710] signature of Peace with Austria (See Appendix “A”).)
Mr. Polk stated that he wished to read the draft note to the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government in order satisfy himself as to questions of form only, and the he would communicate his conclusions thereupon to Sir Eyre Crowe later in the day. Communication to the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government Relative to the Signature of Peace With Austria
It was decided:
to approve the draft communication from the Supreme Council to the Serb-Croat-Slovene Government relative to the signature of peace with Austria (See Appendix “A”), subject to the reservation that Mr. Polk would examine this draft further with reference to questions of form and would communicate his conclusions to Sir Eyre Crowe.
3. Sir Eyre Crowe said that it had been reported to him that as a result of the situation at Kiga the Allied Naval Armistice Commission had decided temporarily to stop the movement of all German ships in the Baltic. Formerly it was necessary to obtain the Commission’s permission for German ships to navigate but the Commission now proposed to suspend the granting of all such permissions. He wished to know if the Supreme Council agreed to this action. Action of Allied Naval Armistice Commission Resulting From the Situation at Riga
M. Pichon said that the Council would take note of it.
Mr. Polk inquired whether this would apply to all German ships in the Baltic regardless of where they might be.
Sir Eyre Crowe replied that this was the case, the reason being that if ships were allowed to go out of the harbors where they now were there was no telling what their destination might be.
Mr. Polk felt that if the Armistice Commission had taken such action it was quite all right.
Sir Eyre Crowe added that a British ship had been fired on by the Germans and twice hit.
(The council noted with approval the action of the Allied Naval Armistice Commission.)
4. (The Council had before it a report from the Supreme War Council relative to supplies to be furnished the Polish Army (See Appendix “B”).) Report From the Supreme War Council Relative to Aid To Be Given to Polish Army
General Belin stated that the Council had agreed on all the points embraced in this report, with the reservation by the American Representative to the effect that his Government could at the present moment not participate in any way in furnishing supplies to Poland.
M. Tittoni observed that a Polish Committee for the purchase of war material had been in contact with his Government and he hoped that the participation by Italy in the furnishing of supplies recommended [Page 711] under the terms of the War Council’s report would not interrupt the activities of this Polish Purchasing Committee in Italy.
General Belin observed that the same situation existed in France. General Le Rond called attention to the deficiency which would exist even if the recommendations contained in the report of the Supreme War Council were fully carried out. Marshal Foch had made it clear that 600,000 sets of warm clothing were urgently necessary for the Polish Army. The Marshal had hown that it was a political as well as a military necessity to furnish this clothing immediately to the Polish Army but it now appeared that only 200,000 sets of warm clothing could possibly be sent to the Polish Army; likewise, it waft evident that no Power could supply sufficient rolling stock to Poland in accordance with the recommendations of the report. Anything that any Power might be able to do over and above the contribution allotted to it by this report would be of the greatest possible benefit. The gravest problem necessarily was that of clothing; if the Polish Army did not receive partially adequate clothing before the setting in of a rigorous winter it was extremely liable to become imbued with the dangerous revolutionary doctrines by which they were surrounded.
Mr. Polk desired to ask the officers present if they thought that an army of the present size was a necessity to Poland.
General Le Bond agreed with Mr. Polk’s underlying idea that the Polish army should be reduced to such a size as would be consistent with military necessity, but a question of fact was presented in that the Polish Government was obliged to clothe even those men who were now under arms and who might later be demobilized.
M. Tittoni felt that a reduction in the size of the Polish army was inevitable. He recalled that when M. Paderewski was last heard before the Council he had made it very clear that it would be impossible for Poland to continue to pay an army of that size.3 The Council felt that no Power or Powers could undertake the financial burden necessary for the maintenance of the Polish army, and the examination of the question had been postponed. His immediate concern, however, was not Bolshevism, for he felt that this was rapidly tending to become less dangerous.
General Le Bond thought that it was somewhat premature to dismiss the question of the danger of Bolshevism thus lightly.
M. Tittoni reiterated that the size of the Polish army must be reduced as there was no way of paying it.
Mr. Polk called attention to the fact that according to a prior report on this question 100,000 new men were being called to the colors in November and 75,000 additional men would be called up in January and March.
[Page 712]General Le Rond inquired whether the number of men demobilized was also shown in this report. It was a fact that the Poles had released a considerable number of the older classes.
M. Pichon pointed out that in a recent debate in the Polish Diet the Minister of War had promised that a substantial number of men would shortly be demobilized: this, however, was dependent upon the situation in Russia, and according to latest advices, the end of the Soviet regime could hardly be predicted as likely to occur prior to the month of March. It would be highly imprudent therefore to cease taking serious precautions. Certainly every effort must be made to clothe the Polish army at once.
Mr. Polk said there was no doubt of that.
General Belin pointed out that the report of the Supreme War Council had taken account of the fact that an additional effort relative to the supply of the Polish army might have to be made; it was for this reason that the report had specified that the general basis of its recommendations was a momentary one.
Sir Eyre Crowe desired to point out that if the British were to be asked to make a further effort with respect to supplying the Polish army it should be remembered what had already been done by them; for instance, the British practically alone had undertaken the complete supply of the forces in southern Russia.
It was decided:
to accept the report submitted by the Supreme War Council relative to aid to be given to the Polish army and to transmit this report to Marshal Foch for execution.
5. (The Council had before it a draft proclamation of the Inter-Allied Ehineland High Commission. (See Appendix “C”) Proclamation of the Inter-Allied Rhineland High Commission
M. Tirarp explained that this proclamation would be Pulished on the day the Treaty entered into force. He pointed out that in the first and second paragraphs of this proclamation mention was made only of the Allied Powers; if the United States should decide to designate a representative on this Commission the words “and Associated” could be added to the words “the Allied Powers” at the last moment.
Mr. Polk said that the point could not be answered on that day. He would immediately transmit the draft of this document to his Government for its approval.
(It was decided:
to adopt the draft proclamation of the Inter-Allied Ehineland High Commission, with the reservations that Mr. Polk would submit this document to his Government for approval, and that in case the United States Government should communicate a decision to designate a representative on the Inter-Allied Rhineland High Commission, [Page 713] the words “and Associated” should be added in the first and second paragraphs to the words “The Allied Powers”.)
6. (The Council had before it a draft form of letter to be signed by the President of the United States calling the first meeting of the Council of the League of Nations (See Appendix “D”), a draft letter from the President of the Conference to the Spanish Ambassador at Paris (See Appendix Nltion”E”), and a draft letter from the President of the Conference to the chief delegate of the United States of America, the British Empire, Japan, Belgium, Brazil and Greece. (See Appendix F”).) Summoning of the FirstMeeting of the Council of the League of Nations
M. Fromageot read and commented on these three draft letters and pointed out that it was most important to have the first meeting of the Council of the League of Nations take place at the very hour when the Treaty came into effect and in the same place. Taking up the question of the Sarre territory, as an example, he showed that there was no obligation under the Treaty to appoint a Sarre Commission within any given time, but that if this were not done this district would be without any Government whatsoever, inasmuch as all German authority ceased the moment the Treaty came into force.
Sir Eyre Crowe remarked that the same thing applied to Dantzig.
M. Fromageot said that this was not quite so in form, although substantially it was so.
Mr. Polk stated that he had already cabled the draft of the convocation of the first meeting of the Council of the League of Nations to Washington.
Sir Eyre Crowe agreed to the necessity of having the first meeting take place at the moment the Treaty came into effect, but he was not so convinced of the necessity of having the first meeting in Paris. The essential machinery actually existed and was in London.
M. Tittoni stated that he had just received from the Secretary General at London the agenda for the first meeting of the Council of the League of Nations. There were two alternative agenda possible: if the United States were not represented at the first meeting of the Council of the League of Nations this meeting should take place in Paris and could only concern itself with the nomination of members of the Commission of Delimitation of the Sarre Territory; whereas, if the United States should be represented at this meeting it should take place in London and the agenda would then comprise numerous questions which would necessitate protracted action.
M. Pichon pointed out that the agenda received by M. Tittoni could only be a draft. The question of the place where the first meeting of the Council of the League of Nations should take place could only be decided here by the Supreme Council because Sir Eric Drummond [Page 714] could not act officially as General Secretary of the League of Nations before the Treaty came into force. Up to the present time all official meetings with reference to the organization of the League of Nations had taken place in Paris. M. Clemenceau and Colonel House had agreed that the first meeting should be in Paris.
Sir Eyre Crowe stated that he was not aware of any such agreement.
M. Fromageot pointed out that it would be most unfortunate to have nothing but the question of the Sarre Delimitation Commission on the agenda of the first meeting.
M. Pichon said that President Wilson had agreed to call the first meeting of the Council of the League of Nations at Paris.
Mr. Polk said that he was not objecting, but that he had never known that there was such an agreement. He thought, in fact, that it was better to have the first meeting here in Paris, but that he was quite unaware that there had been an agreement to that effect. He could recall nothing further than that at a meeting between MM. Clemenceau, Lloyd George, Tittoni and the Japanese Ambassador the matter had been discussed. He had never seen the letter in question from Colonel House to M. Clemenceau, except insofar as he had seen press reports thereof, and he did not think that President Wilson was committed by this letter.
M. Pichon remarked that if Mr. Polk had already cabled to Washington, there was nothing to do but to await a reply.
It was decided:
- (1)
- to adopt the draft form of letter, to be signed by President Wilson, convoking the first meeting of the Council of the League of Nations;
- (2)
- to adjourn the consideration of the question of an unofficial meeting of the Council of the League of Nations.
7. Mr. Polk summarized a letter from the Commanding General of the American Forces in Germany recommending that the cost of transportation to and maintenance in the United States of German subjects convicted of serious offences, entailing a sentence of confinement of five years or more, against members of the American Forces or against the property or authority of the American Forces in Germany, be deemed a proper charge against the German Government as an item in the cost of maintenance of troops of occupation. Cost of Transportation to and Maintenance in the United States of German Subjests Convicted of Serious Offences Against Members of the American Forces or Against the Property or Authority of American Forces in Germany
It was decided:
to refer this question to the Drafting Committee.
8. (The Council had before it a report from the Drafting Committee relative to the enforcement of unfulfilled armistice clauses after the [Page 715] entrance into force of the Treaty and to affirmative means of action available to the Allied and Associated Powers (See appendix “G”).) Report of the Drafting Committee Relative to Enforcement of Unfulfilled Armistice Clauses After the Entrance Into Force of the Treaty, and To Affirmative Means of Action Available to the Allied and Associated Powers
M. Fromageot read and commented upon this report.
Mr. Polk asked whether a pacific blockade could be imposed by any other body than the League of Nations.
Fromageot said that the Covenant does provide means of pressure but his Committee was considering the question independently of the provisions with respect to the League of Nations and rather from the point of view of action to be taken by the Allied and Associated Powers.
Mr. Polk queried whether economic pressure could not be exerted by the Separation Commission? What he chiefly desired to ascertain was what was the quickest means of bringing pressure to bear on Germany?
M. Fromageot said that apart from a blockade there could be effective interdiction of commerce as well as financial measures. Furthermore there were additional means of bringing pressure to bear, for instance, it might be provided that German goods and German freights should be subjected to a severe surtax which could go towards the payment of Germany’s debt for reparations. He added that if certain Powers had objections to a pacific blockade these objections could only be valid in so far as they emanated from Powers that had ratified the Treaty. Powers who had not ratified could declare a blockade and could take measures amounting to interdiction of commerce while requesting that the Powers which had ratified the Treaty should coordinate with them.
Sir Eyre Crowe remarked that Mr. Polk’s question was not as to what measures might be taken but as to who might take them.
M. Fromageot replied that the principal Allied and Associated Powers could do so. He added that an additional means of exerting pressure was the occupation of German territory, for which there were clear precedents, for instance, the occupation of the Duchy of Schleswig and of Mitylene. Finally there remained the possibility of retaining prisoners until the Germans should fulfill all of their obligations arising out of the armistice.
Sir Eyre Crowe thought that there were a good many practical questions remaining to be settled. Certainly the various Commissions charged with the supervision of the execution of the terms of the armistice should report on the terms of the Armistice which still remained unfulfilled and submit these reports to the Council. He said [Page 716] that he knew offhand several unfulfilled clauses, for instance, the naval clauses.
M. Berthelot suggested that each Committee charged with the supervision of execution of the Armistice clauses should be asked to report within four days on any unfulfilled clauses coming within their jurisdiction.
It was decided:
- (1)
- that Marshal Foch and the competent Commissions (The Allied Armistice Commission at Cologne, the Allied Naval Armistice Commission at London, the Financial Commission) should report to the Council within four days all clauses of the Armistice still remaining unfulfilled;
- (2)
- that Sir Eyre Crowe should take the necessary measures to secure this report from the Allied Naval Armistice Commission.
9. (The Council had before it a letter from General Nollet to President Clemenceau, dated Berlin, October 9th, 1919 (See Appendix “H”).) Monthly Allowances To Be Assigned to General Officers, Members of Inter-Allied Commissions of Control in Germany Who Are Chairmen Neither of Commissions Nor Sub-Commissions
Colonel Roye stated the substance of this letter to the council.
M. Pichon asked if there were any objections to the recommendations contained in this letter.
Sir Eyre Crowe said that the Council already had certain officers fulfilling certain functions, and that according to these functions their allowances had been regulated. Now another principle was being introduced; that of payment according to military rank.
Colonel Rote stated that General Nollet recommended these allowances because he intended to use these two Generals on special missions.
M. Pichon thought that it was not a question of rank, as Sir Eyre Crowe had indicated. These two officers were to be given these allowances not because they were Generals but because they were heads of delegations.
Mr. Polk said that the whole theory of allowances was being brought up in this question and that the Council was not really competent now to decide this question. It should be referred to Versailles.
M. Tittoni asked if there were any other officers in this situation.
M. Pichon said that there probably were not.
M. Tittoni thought that in that case no precedent would be created.
Mr. Polk pointed out that anything done now would surely constitute a precedent with respect to Austria, Hungary and Bulgaria.
M. Pichon thought that under the circumstances the best thing to do was to refer the matter back to General Nollet asking him for further information and recommendations, having in mind all the consequences that might result from the granting of allowances in these particular cases.
[Page 717](It was decided:
to refer the question of monthly allowances to be assigned to General Officers, members of Inter-Allied Commissions of Control in Germany, who were Chairmen of neither Commissions nor Sub-Commissions to General Nollet for further information and recommendations.)
10. (The Council had before it a note of protest from the Greek Delegation against the decision taken by the British Command to transport to Constantinople Turkish heavy artillery and munitions left in the Greek zone of occupation in Asia Minor. (See Appendix “I”.) Protest of the Greek Delegation Against the Decision Taken by the British Command To Constantinople Turkish Heavy Arilllery and Munitions Left in the Greek Zone of Occupation in Asia Minor
M. Berthelot in commenting on the Greek protest, pointed out that the Greeks had no right to the matériel in question; they had only obtained the same by virtue of the decision of the Supreme Council which allowed them to occupy the Smyrna district to maintain order there.4 On the other hand, as the Turks were being disarmed, they should not have this matériel either. It belonged to the reparation fund. He thought it might be best to approve the decision of the British Command, with the understanding that this matériel should be received and held in the name of the Allied Powers.
(It was decided:
to approve the decision of the British Command to transport to Constantinople Turkish heavy artillery and munitions left in the Greek zone of occupation in Asia Minor, on the understanding that this materiel be received and held in the name of the Allied Powers.)
11. (The Council had before it a note from the French Delegation on the repatriation of troops from Siberia (See Appendix “J”). The Reparation substance of the note was stated to the Council.) Reparation [Repatriation] of Troops From Siberia
Mr. Polk asked if it was settled as to who should pay the expenses of reparation [repatriation].
M. Tittoni observed that that was a different question; the only thing now to be decided was the order in which the troops were to be repatriated.
Mr. Pole: thought he had no objection as to the order in which the troops were to be repatriated, but he did not wish the question to be decided on that day. He recalled that he had heard that local conditions in Siberia made it inadvisable, for instance, to repatriate all the Czecho-Slovak troops first.
M. Berthelot wished to add, for the information of the Council, that it was understood that the French would bear the expenses of [Page 718] repatriation arising in Siberia, and that the British would bear the expense of sea transportation; afterwards a division of expenses would be made. He added that after considerable discussion M. Benes had promised him that the Czecho-Slovak Government would pay at least half of the expenses of the repatriation of the Czecho-Slovak troops, and, if possible, would do even better. There remained still unsettled the question of whether the United States would pay a part of the expenses.
Mr. Polk said that the difficulty now was that his Government was prepared to pay a lump sum, but there was a question whether France and England could contribute.
(It was decided:
to adjourn the discussion and decision of this question.)
(The meeting then adjourned)
- Ante, p. 669↩
- Appendix B to HD-68, p. 583↩
- HD–54, minute 1, p. 218.↩
- IC–181C, vol. v, minute 17, p. 484.↩
- HD–65, minute 2, p. 485.↩
- CF–96, minute 5, vol. vi, p. 726.↩
- Appendix F to HB–7, vol. vii, p. 149.↩
- Infra.↩
- Foreign Relations, 1907, pt. 2, pp. 1204, 1214.↩
- Vol. ii, pp. 1, 7.↩
- HD–59, minute 3, p. 327.↩
- HD–58, minute 3, p. 305.↩
- Gen. Maurice Janin, of the French Army; supreme commander of the Czechoslovak Army in Siberia.↩
- with the exception of a few invalids, the Serbians of Vladivostok, as well as several other detachments of the same origin scattered throughout Siberia, do not deserve to be removed before the prisoners. They are deserters and elements unworthy of interest. [Footnote in the original.]↩