No. 61.
Mr. Low to Mr. Fish.
Legation of the
United States,
Peking, March 13, 1873.
(Received May 23.)
No. 237.]
Sir: Referring to my No. 233, of 25th ultimo, I
have now the honor to inform you of what has transpired since, concerning
the same subject.
On the 1st instant the ministers of the yamên sent an identical note to each
of the five legations, a translation of which is sent herewith. (Inclosure
No. 1.) The tenor of this note betokened an attempt at delay, and nothing
else; for if the illness of one of the nine members of the foreign office
could be considered a valid reason for postponing the consideration of so
important a question, it might be doubted whether we would see all the
ministers in robust health at the same time for some months to come. The
proposal to visit each of the foreign representatives separately was an
indication of a desire to ascertain how far each would go in support of the
request made in our collective note of 24th February.
In view of these considerations it seemed advisable to take steps to prevent
useless delay, and also to preserve, as far as possible, solidarity of
action. It was accordingly determined to send the senior interpreter
(M. Bismarck) of the five legations to the yamên to
say, in our names, that we had received their note; that we regretted to
learn of the illness of the grand secretary, Wênsiang,
and hoped it would not prove serious; that if, in the opinion of the yamên,
it was necessary to have personal discussion about the subject of our
collective note before returning a definite answer, and
Wênsiang’s illness seemed likely to continue for
some days, we should, to avoid delay, be compelled to ask the prince to meet
us and discuss the matter. He was also instructed to say that, as our note
was collective, we would prefer that the personal interview should be a
conference at which all the signatories would be present. Herewith I beg to
inclose the procès-verbal of M.
Bismarck’s interview with the ministers on the occasion
referred to. (Inclosure No. 2.)
On the 5th instant two secretaries of the yamên called on M.
Bismarck, the interpreter of the German legation, to say that
Wênsiang’s leave would expire on the 10th instant,
and that after that date, if his health would permit, no time would be lost
in appointing a day for an interview. The tone and manner of the
secretaries, coupled with the indefinite and excusatory nature of their
message, left the impression
[Page 153]
that
their visit was a preliminary step to a further postponement of the
discussion. From all the information obtainable it seemed probable that the
yamên would resort to any and all means to delay action. It was, therefore,
determined to send another collective note to the prince, calling his
attention to our previous one, and impressing upon him the necessity of
prompt action. A copy of this note in French and English is transmitted
herewith. (Inclosure No. 3.)
On the 7th instant the yamên sent an identical note to all the legations, and
subsequently the prince sent one to the ministers jointly, naming Tuesday,
the 11th instant, as the time, and the Russian legation as the place, for a
conference. Translations of these two notes are inclosed. (Inclosures 4 and
5.)
The substance of what was said at that interview is embodied in the
memorandum herewith. (Inclosure b).
It is too early to say what will be the final result. It has been my opinion
from the first that nothing less than the united purpose of all the
governments represented here would cause the Emperor to accede to the
request now made; nor have I seriously doubted that if the Chinese
government could be given to understand clearly that the five powers before
referred to were in accord upon this subject, and were determined to insist
upon this public recognition of their equality, the point would be
yielded.
Nothing has occurred, as yet, to change these opinions.
I have, &c.,
[Inclosure 1.]
Ministers of the Yamên to
Mr. Low.
Sir: We had the honor to receive, on the 24th
of February, the collective dispatch of your excellency and the other
foreign ministers; and the members of the yamên were intending to go to
your legation for the purpose of having an interview with your
excellency on the subject.
But it so happens that His Excellency Wên has
applied for leave on account of illness, which will cause a delay of
some days. Our special object in writing you to-day is to acquaint you
with this circumstance. As soon, however, as Minister
Wên shall be convalescent and his leave shall
have expired, a day will be named on which we shall all pay you a visit
and confer with you about the question.
We avail ourselves of this opportunity to send you our best compliments
and wishes.
[Cards of all the ministers except
Wên
Hsiang
.]
[Inclosure 2.—Translation.]
Procès-verbal of an interview between
Monsieur Bismarck and the ministers
Tung and Chêng, at the
Tsung-li-Yamên, on the 2d of March,
1873.
In pursuance of my instructions, I went on Sunday, the 2d March, at 2
o’clock, to the Tsung-li-Yamên, preceded by the ting chais of the five
legations, each one furnished with the card of his respective
minister.
The Chinese ministers had been informed at 10 a.m. that I should come to
speak to them on important business, but on arriving I found the
Minister Tung only. He expressed astonishment at
the cards of all the representatives, and I hastened to explain to him
that I came as general interpreter for the five foreign ministers, and
that my mission related to the identic dispatch which had been sent to
the legations on the previous day.
[Page 154]
I then inquired whether I might hope to see some of his colleagues, and
he said that one or the other would probably be there shortly.
He then complained of the great amount of business with which the
mandarins in his position were overwhelmed since the accession of the
Emperor, business which occupied them continuously, beginning at 3 or
4½in the morning and lasting till evening, to say nothing of the great
responsibility which weighed upon them.
During this the Minister Chêng Lin had come in, and
I began to execute my commission. In the name of the five foreign
representatives, I expressed the regret they felt at the illness of the
Minister Wên, and their hope that it would not last
long.
The Minister Tung, interrupting me, said, “I fear
you do not feel convinced of the illness of the Minister
Wên, but I assure you that he is really very
unwell.”
M. Bismarck. Considering
the bad health of his excellency there is no reason to doubt that he is
actually ill, but it is most unfortunate that this illness should
coincide with a time when there is so much to negotiate between the
Tsung-li-Yamên and the foreign ministers.
Minister Chêng. His
Excellency Wên felt this acutely. You will believe
in his illness when I tell you that he did not himself apply for leave,
but that, on the occasion of an audience on the day before yesterday,
His Majesty had been so struck with the unusual and sickly appearance of
the minister that His Majesty took the initiative in inviting him to
retire from business for a few days.
M. Bismarck. And you think
his excellency will soon be well again?
Minister Tung. How can one
know? I think, however, that four or five days will suffice to put him
straight again.
M. Bismarck. If the
illness was to be prolonged there would be nothing for the foreign
ministers to do but to ask to see the prince, since the decision on the
important matter in question could not be suspended on account of the
illness of one of the ministers of the Tsung-li-Yamên when the duration
of the illness is uncertain.
Minister Tung. We will
inform Prince Kung to-morrow morning of what you
have said to us, and we will at the same time let you know the state of
health of Minister Wên. I am sure he will be well
in a few days.
Minister Chêng. It is the
weight of business which is the cause of the illness. His Excellency Pao
is also very unwell, but he does not dare to ask for leave at
present.
M. Bismarck. I wish to
repeat that it is desirable that the matter in hand should be settled
without too much delay, as the accession of His Majesty had always been
pointed out by the Tsung-li-Yamên as the proper time to settle the
audience question.
Minister Chêng. Certainly
it ought to be settled, and it shall be settled. Remember how we
announced without delay the accession of the Emperor. What remains to be
done shall be done.
M. Bismarck. You will best
prove your good will by informing His Majesty as quickly as possible of
the desire of the foreign ministers. The illness of Minister
Wên is not a sufficient reason to stop such a
step being taken.
Minister Tung. The
Minister Wên is absolutely necessary to us in these
negotiations. If it was I who was ill it would be a different
matter.
Minister Cheng. As for me, I was ill for a
whole year, and the business of the Tsung-li-Yamên went on very well
without me; I am not an important person.
M. Bismarck. But there is
the prince.
The ministers rise and request me to be seated at the table where
refreshments have been served; they endeavor by every means to get me
off my subject by talking of the difference between European and Chinese
food, &c., &c.
After a little while I asked, in order to return to the question, if the
transaction of business was not easier since the accession of His
Majesty.
Minister Tung. Reports are
now made direct to His Majesty; before they were addressed to the two
empresses who were hidden by a curtain. This system had great
advantages; whereas, now the Emperor has to be spoken to direct, which
makes the duty of reporting very unpleasant. The feeling of
responsibility in the presence of His Majesty is so great that while
doing one’s best to be correct in every detail one is in danger of
overlooking important affairs.
Minister Chêng. To be
questioned by His Majesty in person produces a singular sensation. The
most simple questions, to which one would usually reply without
hesitation, become actual problems when asked by His Majesty. (The
minister cites instances in which he himself had not been able to answer
promptly questions put to him concerning his name and his age.)
M. Bismarck. That may be,
but if you have important business to communicate to His Majesty, and
you fear you might make mistakes in an oral report, you have the good
alternative of presenting a written report to the Throne, in which you
can treat the subject at length and with precision, after mature
reflection beforehand.
Minister Chêng. But if
afterward His Majesty wishes to have a verbal commentary on the report,
we find ourselves in the same difficulty; we are weighted with a sense
of enormous responsibility.
M. Bismarck. The step now
taken by the foreign representatives ought not, however,
[Page 155]
to cause such great difficulty, for you
have had so many years to prepare the solution; and, besides, what
responsibility can fall upon you, seeing that it is the foreign
ministers who have taken the step, or rather governments, which ask for
the reception of their envoys, not only as an act of propriety and
politeness in use throughout the civilized world, but also as a
necessity required by the dignity of these governments. Were, not the
Chinese envoys received at foreign courts?
Minister Tung. Certainly,
but in that our envoys accommodated themselves to the usages of your
countries, whereas in China such a matter requires before all minute
consideration as to the best way in which to bring it forward. For my
part, I should certainly prefer to be named envoy in a distant country
and to conform to the foreign manners to supporting as a minister of the
Tsung-li-Yamên the demands of the foreign representatives.
(The Minister Chêng agrees.)
M. Bismarck. What steps
have you taken concerning the collective note of the ministers of the
24th of February?
Minister Tung. We shall
submit the contents of the note in the form of a report to His
Majesty.
M. Bismarck. Does that
mean that as yet such a report has not been made? The foreign ministers
supposed that your report had been made to the Throne without the
slightest delay.
Minister Chêng,
(exchanging a smile with his colleague.) What an idea! We cannot
surprise His Majesty all of a sudden by a request for the audience while
he is still unaware of the grounds on which such a request is put
forward. His Majesty is not twenty years of age, and, notwithstanding
his eminent position, one cannot expect him to be familiar with all
questions that arise. Before inviting the Emperor to give his decision
on the question of audience it is, therefore, our duty to determine the
manner in which it will be most expedient to prepare His Majesty.
M. Bismarck. And how long
would it take you to arrange this and to ask for the decision of His
Majesty?
Minister Tung. Indeed; I
am unable to say.
M. Bismarck. But that is a
question to which you can very well reply without engaging yourself to
anything.
Minister Tung. We dare not
give our opinion on it; but be assured that the affair shall not be
delayed.
Minister Chêng. A
conference with the foreign ministers forms a part of the
preliminaries.
M. Bismarck. I do not
understand what you should have to communicate to the foreign ministers,
unless it is to inform them before anything else that His Majesty has
taken cognizance of the collective note of the 24th of February. What
other object could a conference have?
Minister Chêng. On the day
of the interview we shall receive further instructions on this
point.
M. Bismarck. In your,
letter of yesterday you said that you were on the point of going to the
legations; therefore, you knew the object of your negotiation.
Minister Chêng. No; up to
this moment we are still ignorant of the details; we shall only know
them at the last moment, when the prince gives us our instructions.
M. Bismarck. All that
appears to me to point again to useless delays.
Minister Chêng. Be
re-assured; we are well aware of the impatience with which the foreign
ministers regard the solution of this affair.
M. Bismarck. Not only
that, but the envoys are all resolved upon success; in addition, the
most complete understanding exists between them on the matter, and the
Chinese government, although it has to deal with five representatives,
has nevertheless to deal with only one opinion.
Minister Chêng. It is a
very good system to hang closely together; we do it also when we have
difficult and important business to settle.
M. Bismarck. Well, what
answer am I to take to the envoys regarding this proposed
conference?
Minister Tung. We have
already said to you that at a very early hour to-morrow we will inform
the prince, and we will find out at the same time about the health of
his excellency Wên.
M. Bismarck. Then we may
expect to hear from you, say, the day after to-morrow?
The two Ministers, (after consulting together
in a low tone.) We promise this.
M. Bismarck. Above all, I
will beg of you not to forget the importance and urgency of the matter,
and that, were the ministers not to receive in a short time a
satisfactory answer, nothing would be left for them to do but to ask for
an audience of the prince.
The ministers repeated their assurances, and I took my leave. The
interview had lasted one hour and a half.
C. BISMARCK.
Peking, March 4,
1873.
[Page 156]
[Inclosure 3.—Translation.]
Foreign ministers to
Prince Kung.
Sir: The undersigned, ministers for Russia,
Germany, the United States, Great Britain, and France, have the honor to
refer to their collective note of the 24th February, in which they
expressed their desire to have an audience of His Majesty the Emperor of
China for the purpose of presenting their congratulations to His
Majesty, and requested his imperial highness to move His Majesty to
issue orders for their reception.
It has been intimated to the undersigned, by the ministers of the yamên
of foreign affairs, that their excellencies had had it in contemplation
to call at their respective legations for the purpose of having some
conversation upon the subject of the collective note, but that the
indisposition of the grand secretary, Wên Hsiang,
had induced them to postpone their visit.
The undersigned regret extremely the continued illness of the grand
secretary. The matter of their note of the 24th February, as attested by
the fact that the note was collective, is, however, of the highest
importance, and the undersigned, in order to the satisfaction of its
object at an early date, feel it their duty to address a second note to
his highness for the purpose of requesting an interview with him at such
time and in such place as may suit his imperial highness to name.
[Inclosure 4.]
Ministers of the foreign
office to Mr. Low.
Sir: On the 24th February we received from
their excellencies the foreign ministers a collective note, and on the
4th March we sent messengers to the residence of M.
Bismarck, the German interpreter, with directions to
request their excellencies to name a place for an interview, in order
that we might fix upon a time for a general discussion.
Upon the 5th instant we again received a dispatch requesting us to name
time and place for an interview.
We therefore propose, in the first instance, to meet their excellencies
at the Russian legation, on the 11th instant, at 1 p.m., to discuss this
matter, and we trust their excellencies will be able to meet at the time
stated.
We herewith send notes to each of the other foreign ministers, as also to
your excellency, with our compliments, &c.
[Cards of the ministers.]
[Inclosure 5.]
Prince Kung to the
foreign ministers.
Prince Kung, chief secretary of state for foreign
affairs, herewith makes a communication in reply.
Upon the 24th February I had the honor to receive the collective note of
your excellencies, stating that, having received the announcement that
His Majesty the Emperor of China had attained his majority, and on the
23d February had, in person, assumed control of the government of the
empire, you would be failing in the duties of your position did you not,
at an early day, present the congratulations of your respective
governments to His Majesty. You therefore requested me to lay this
expression of your desire before the throne, and receive His Majesty’s
orders as to an audience.
Upon the 5th instant I again received a collective note from your
excellencies, requesting me to appoint an interview.
As the interests involved in this matter are of the utmost consequence, I
have in the first instance directed his excellency Wên
Hsiang and the other members of the foreign office to
meet your excellencies at the Russian legation, on Tuesday, 11th March,
at 1 p.m., for a general consultation. I trust your excellencies will
all be able to meet at the time and place named.
A note to the effect stated above has already been dispatched by the
yamên to each of you, and in addition thereto I beg to make this
reply.
To their Excellencies Vlangaly,
De Rehfues Low Wade De Geofroy.
[Page 157]
[Inclosure 6.]
Memorandum of an interview between the foreign
ministers and four ministers of the Tsung-li-Yamên at the Russian
legation, March 11, 1873.
In response to a request made by Prince Kung, the
ministers of Russia, Germany, the United States, England, and France,
met the grand secretary, Wên Hsiang, and the
ministers Mao, Shên, and Chung-how, at 1 o’clock, p.m., for the purpose
of discussing the subject-matter of the joint notes addressed to the
prince on the 24th February and 5th March.
After the usual compliments, the Russian minister (the doyen of the
diplomatic body in Peking) announced that we were prepared to listen to
what the Chinese ministers had to say with reference to the request
embodied in the joint notes referred to.
Wên Hsiang then proceeded to say that the question
of admitting foreign ministers to the personal audience of the Emperor
was a very serious and somewhat difficult one to manage. The question of
audience, he said, is, in itself, not difficult, as that could be easily
arranged, provided the forms and ceremonies customary among the Chinese
were observed by the foreign ministers. But as it was understood that
these forms would not be acceptable, the prince had instructed him and
his colleagues present to come and have a personal consultation, with a
view of agreeing, if possible, upon a code of etiquette which would be
mutually satisfactory. He also intimated that our demand had taken them
somewhat by surprise, and that it was necessary to carefully consider
all the points before presenting a memorial to the throne.
In reply we said that the question of audience could not be considered a
new one, for if had been brought to the attention of the members of the
yamên on many occasions during the last twelve years; nor could the
government reasonably expect that there would be any delay in asking for
it after the Emperor assumed personal control of the government.
We further said that the request contained in our note of 24th February
was so reasonable, and our duty in the premises so clear, that it was
not easy to perceive what preliminary discussion was necessary. But as
it had been intimated that the ministers desired an interview, we had
with pleasure assembled to hear and respectfully consider any
propositions they might have to make.
Wên Hsiang, in response, said that it was the custom
with their own officials to prostrate themselves when they appeared in
the presence of the Emperor; and desired to know whether we would agree
to kneel. If we would accept that as a compromise, the main difficulty
would be removed, he thought.
We replied that such a proposition was quite inadmissible, that it was
useless to discuss the reasons, as they had been so often repeated
within the last ten years, that none of the high officials could be
ignorant of them.
We were then asked whether we could not suggest some plan which might be
considered a compromise.
To this we responded, that in western countries it was usual for the
sovereign to stand when a foreign minister was presented, but that we
should not insist upon that rule being observed in the present instance,
and if it suited His Majesty better to be seated when we were presented,
we should offer no objection. (It was plain that this suggestion did not
seem to the Chinese ministers a concession.)
In support of our view of the case we cited the history of the Burl in
game mission. We said that the Chinese embassadors were received by the
heads of all the governments they visited; that when the audiences were
granted, the embassadors were given to understand that when the Emperor
of China assumed control reciprocal courtesies would be expected from
him, and in some instances, particularly in the United States and in
France, this was clearly stated in the written response to the request
of the Chinese ministers for audiences.
This argument was met by the announcement that their embassadors, in
making request for audience abroad, exceeded their instructions. To this
we replied that we could not pretend to say what were their
instructions. It was, however, reasonably certain that the imperial
government was made aware of the details of the proceedings of its
embassadors, and if, as was alleged, their ministers exceeded their
instructions on so important a matter, the government should have
promptly made known its disapproval.
Neither of the governments represented by the ministers present having up
to this moment received any intimation that the course of the Chinese
embassadors was disapproved, the imperial government was practically
bound by the acts of its agents.
Wên Hsiang then said, “How can we justify ourselves
to recommend the Emperor to receive you in the manner you desire, when
the prince (the uncle of the Emperor) will, when introducing you, be
obliged to kneel?” To this we responded by saying that, according to
their theory, the government of China is paternal: the whole people are
one family, of which the Emperor is the paternal head; that the princes
and high ministers are a part of the family, while the foreign ministers
occupy the relation of
[Page 158]
guests.
If, however, this view should not appear reasonable, the prince might be
relieved from the necessity of kneeling when presenting the foreign
ministers. This proposition elicited no discussion or even response.
The grand secretary remarked, after a somewhat lengthy pause, “We are
anxious to arrange this matter satisfactorily, and the prince hoped we
would be able to agree upon some compromise as to the etiquette which
would facilitate a settlement. As yet, we seem to have made little or no
progress. Will you please take our proposition into careful
consideration, and we will meet you again in a few days for further
discussion.”
To this we responded that the five ministers present were in entire
accord upon three points, which it was useless to discuss, namely—
- 1st.
- The propriety and necessity for asking personal audience of
the Emperor.
- 2d.
- That it should be granted without unnecessary delay.
- 3d.
- That it could not be accepted upon condition of our kneeling
or performing any other ceremony which would be derogatory to
our own personal dignity or that of the governments we
represent. We further said that when the government is prepared
to assent to these primary conditions, we will then be prepared
to discuss, in an amicable and conciliatory spirit, all minor
points of etiquette which may be brought forward.
Some further discussion ensued without reaching any result, and the
conference adjourned to meet again on the 14th instant, at the German
legation.
The session continued about four hours.
