Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964–1968, Volume XXV, South Asia

307. Summary Record of Conversation Between President Johnson and Prime Minister Gandhi¹

Washington, March 28, 1966.

At approximately 12:35 p.m., the President and Mrs. Gandhi returned to the assembled group of advisers² in the Cabinet Room and reported briefly on their talks as follows:

The President said they had had a pleasant and most helpful exchange of views and they discovered they had many things in common. In fact, he hadn’t realized how numerous these were. Prime Minister Gandhi faced some of the same problems which he had after the death of President Kennedy—demanding internal problems, difficult international issues, and elections. He said that they had been talking about her needs and our needs. She had told him of the agricultural agreements that had been reached between Minister Subramaniam and Secretary Freeman, and mentioned the fact that they had to go before her Parliament. He had told her that we had a similar requirement and were taking a message to Congress. We wanted to be able to say to the IBRD as soon as it gets other countries pulled together that we will do what we can. He said he wanted to ask Congress to support this and also the food program. He hoped a message would go up this week, then the Prime Minister can have her economists meet with George Woods to work out the details. He and the Prime Minister had not gone into detail.

The President said they also talked of the need for peace in that part of the world and said they understood each other and agreed to do everything possible to be helpful to each other. He then asked Mrs. Gandhi if she had anything to add.

Prime Minister Gandhi said the President had summed up things very well. They had indeed found they had much in common. The President had said how worried he is about the problem of getting support from people who are opposed to paying out large sums of aid to India. She had replied that India can be a great force for peace and that India is, of course, grateful for the material help of the United States, but it needs even more the understanding of the United States. She said she told the President he is admired in India because India sees him as someone trying to translate the ideals of the United States’ Constitution into reality; he was someone who believed in it sincerely. Asia is in an explosive state; now that independence has been gained, people have come to expect something more than the past has offered; new horizons have opened up which are still beyond their reach. They are impatient for change to take place. Mrs. Gandhi said she told the President India is in a position to use its aid much better; it is making an effort to be better organized and more efficient, drawing in younger, more energetic groups. She said India had a record of achievement, but mistakes had also been made. One of the significant facts was that among the educated group of people—and although this was still small, it was an increasing group in India—they had achieved a fair amount of excellence. These people are now being called upon to get greater efficiency and more movement. She believed that between the United States and India there could be a good working partnership.

The President said he had also asked the Prime Minister to give us from time to time recommendations for procedures to get peace in Vietnam and the rest of the world. He said he had made no request; he had expressed appreciation for their ICC service and hoped somehow we could find the answer to peace. He had told Mrs. Gandhi that we are generally agreed that we want to do what we can and what the Congress will let us do to support George Woods’ efforts in India’s economic development. He thought that arrangements could best be made between technicians. The President then said that they had gone on to discuss generally the question of family planning, agriculture and peace planning, but no details. He said he thought it had been a very enjoyable talk.³

The Secretary reported briefly on the exchange of views that had taken place among the advisers during the course of the Presidential talks. He noted that he thought the discussion had been beneficial and that it had been possible to go into detail on our attitudes toward peaceful settlement in Southeast Asia and how this might be brought about. The Indian delegation had also reported on the worsening of the Tashkent atmosphere. The Secretary thought we had laid groundwork for further useful discussions and we had, therefore, employed our time very usefully.

Prime Minister Gandhi intervened with one further thought which she termed her pet idea: she mentioned that on the subject of achieving better Indo-Pak relations she had been wondering if there could be some major economic project, like the Mekong, which might help to improve relations. She thought common involvement in a constructive effort might contribute to lessening of fears and tensions. The Secretary observed in a sense this is the way the Saar problem was solved. Ambassador Bowles noted that harnessing the Brahmaputra was just such a project. The Secretary said we would be happy to hear more about how this might be brought about. The President closed the conversation by saying we would leave it to our imaginative Ambassador Bowles to come up with ideas.

1. Source: Johnson Library, National Security File, Country File, India, Vol. VII, Memos & Miscellaneous, 1–8/66. Secret. No drafting information appears on the record, but an April 5 note from Saunders to Bromley Smith indicates that Handley and Laise prepared it. (Ibid.) Prime Minister Gandhi visited the United States March 27–April 1; she was in Washington March 28–29.
2. The group included Rusk, Hare, Bowles, Valenti, Komer, Handley, Ambassador Nehru, L.K. Jha, C.S. Jha, and Minister of Embassy P.K. Banerjee. A memorandum of their conversation before Johnson and Gandhi joined them, which was devoted almost entirely to Vietnam, is in National Archives and Records Administration, RG 59, Central Files 1964–66, POL 27 VIET S.
3. In a telephone conversation later in the afternoon with Rusk, Johnson observed that he had not gotten much out of his conversation with Gandhi. “I just sat there and listened to what I consider to be a rather limited and superficial discussion of problems.” He could discern no sense of urgency in Gandhi’s description of the problems facing her nation. Rusk said that he had had a similar experience during a luncheon conversation with the Prime Minister. Both Johnson and Rusk noted that Gandhi had taken no initiative in the discussions. Johnson said that when he suggested that famine in India might lead to widespread starvation and death Gandhi had responded that no one would die from the famine. She indicated that malnutrition was the worst specter faced by the Indian people. In Johnson’s view, Gandhi had not made a strong case for U.S. assistance. (Johnson Library, Recordings and Transcripts, Recording of Telephone Conversation Between President Johnson and Secretary Rusk, March 28, 1966, 4:44 p.m., Tape F66.13, Side A, PNO 232)