126. Memorandum of Conversation1
SUBJECT
- Summary of the President’s Meeting with Lebanese Foreign Minister Fuad Boutros
PARTICIPANTS
- President
- Secretary of State Cyrus Vance
- Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
- Mr. Alfred L. Atherton, Jr., Assistant Secretary of State for Bureau of Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs
- Ambassador Richard Parker, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon
- Mr. William B. Quandt, NSC Staff
- Honorable Fuad Boutros, Foreign Minister of Lebanon
President: Is Lebanon interested in going to the Geneva Conference?
Mr. Boutros: Secretary Vance raised this question in March.2 In the past we were always eager to avoid being placed in the position of admitting that we had a problem of borders with Israel. But if the Geneva Conference is going to discuss more than withdrawal, if it is to deal with peace, the future of the Palestinians, then we do want to be involved. We have an interest in signing a peace treaty and we are interested in the question of the Palestinians in Lebanon. Secretary Vance gave me a working paper dealing with the groups that would be at Geneva.3 Lebanon was only mentioned as part of the geographic groups which would deal with borders and treaties. The other question in which Lebanon is interested, perhaps even more than some other parties, has to do with the people who are in our countries, the Palestinians and the refugees. We would be grateful if you could admit that Lebanon should also be part of that functional group.
President: Israel has proposed that outside of the framework of the Geneva Peace Conference there should be a discussion of all of the refugee problems on a multinational basis, and Israel said it would be very flexible on representation. Concerning negotiations with Lebanon, [Page 685] it should be possible for Lebanon to include within its own delegation some Palestinians. But Israel feels that the question of the West Bank and Gaza should be decided by Israel, Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinians who live there. Within that framework, you can choose your own delegation, and there will be a multinational approach to the refugee question. The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, plus Egypt and Jordan, will talk about the West Bank and Gaza, and that can go on simultaneously. That might be adequate. Israel is not willing to broaden the West Bank discussion to include Syria and Lebanon.
Boutros: We don’t want to be involved in the West Bank. We are not looking for new problems. Syria might cause you problems on that, however.
Secretary Vance: Israel is now willing to have the refugee question discussed at the conference. Their position has moved. It can be discussed by all states, including Lebanon.
Boutros: Very good. We are very pleased with the situation as it has developed in south Lebanon, and we appreciate your help.
President: It is important to move rapidly now to put your forces into the south and to get the PLO out. Otherwise, Israel will be impatient, and the Christians may move in.
Boutros: If there is no legal Lebanese authority in the south, Israel will fill the vacuum. We are having some minor problems with the PLO, but they have also moved their position a lot. I think it can be worked out. The Lebanese crisis by itself cannot be disconnected from the Palestinian problem and from the broader Middle East. We have to do everything possible to alleviate the burden on Lebanon. We have to find some interim solution to the problems of Lebanon. We cannot accept the idea that the future of our country depends on the solution to the Middle East crisis. The United States can do a great deal to help. First, you can talk to the Christians in Lebanon. The Christians may try to go too far. I would be grateful if, through your relations with Israel, you could draw Israel’s attention to the fact that partition in Lebanon cannot lead to a good solution. We would like you to take that into consideration. Lebanon must keep its ties to the Arab world.
Ambassador Parker: Some Christians favor the partition of Lebanon into Christian and Muslim areas, and some believe that Israel agrees with this idea. We cannot bring the PLO and the Christians together, but we are in touch with the Christian leaders and we do urge restraint.
President: How are your relations with the PLO?
Boutros: We have rather normal relations, but there are tensions and problems. We insist that they apply the Shtaura agreement. They signed a paper committing themselves to this. We got them to sign a minute of the meeting in which they made these commitments. This [Page 686] was difficult for them to do, since they are a pseudo state, a revolutionary movement, and we cannot expect them to act like an established state. When Lebanon backs the Palestinians, it does not do so simply for reasons of solidarity. We are also defending our own country. We want to get rid of trouble in Lebanon by solving the Palestinian problem.
President: Is there room for Palestinians in Lebanon?
Boutros: We want to get rid of those who are already there. The Lebanese Constitution cannot allow the delicate balances that exist to be changed.
President: How many Palestinians are there now?
Boutros: Five hundred to six hundred thousand is the total Palestinian population. They are not all fighters. This is in a total population of two and a half million.
President: We will proceed on the basis of your being a full member of the Geneva Conference. We agree that partition would be a mistake and we will try to help. I hope that in every instance you will be able to play a constructive role. Some of the parties have been very rigid. We need to have people negotiate in good faith. We will welcome your advice and Secretary Vance will stay in close touch.
Boutros: I want you to understand Lebanon’s role. Israel will always remain alien in the Arab world and will not be accepted. But Lebanon will be a real link between east and west, as we were in the past. We are trying to regain that role. We want to play a role of wisdom as a mediator, and as one who promotes discussions.
- Source: Carter Library, National Security Affairs, Staff Material, Middle East File, Subject File, Box 66, Middle East: Peace Negotiations 1977 Vol. I [III]. Secret. The meeting took place at the UN Plaza Hotel.↩
- Presumably a reference to Vance’s meeting with President Sarkis on February 18. See Document 13.↩
- See footnote 2, Document 118.↩