Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961–1963, Volume III, Vietnam, January–August 1963

236. Memorandum From the Director of the Vietnam Working Group (Kattenburg) to the Assistant Secretary of State for Far Eastern Affairs (Hilsman)¹

Washington, July 24, 1963.

SUBJECT

• Luncheon with Lansdale

1. The luncheon convinced me that Lansdale assesses the situation quite objectively. He is most cognizant of the steady deterioration in the Diem regime over a period of years. He alluded several times to the difficulties he found on his last trip in late 1961² and which he felt to a large degree remained uncorrected.

2. He mentioned that his judgments must be based on what he sees in the reports, and not on what on what he feels since he has not been there for nearly two years. “There is nothing like talking to someone face to face in order to assess him.”

3. He brought up himself the idea of a possible trip on his part to suggest to me that if we wanted him to he would be willing to go out for an assessment of the whole picture. I moved into this opening and asked him how he felt this would be received by various elements on the spot. He thought he could play out any problems on this score and that he could have contact with, and come up with an assessment of, both elements in and closest to the regime and those plotting its overthrow.

4. He definitely does not seem to me to be wedded to the regime. He has, I think, felt for a long time that it is moving to its own funeral but he is not sure whether the moment has yet arrived.

5. For these reasons and because of point 3 in the message to you³—i.e., “I think Lansdale would be helpful in discovering intents among the generals and relieving pressures; in event coup is attempted Lansdale would be most helpful in assessing prospects and in evaluating potential leadership.”—I continue to urge that you favor this move, subject to Lodge’s approval. As far as I am concerned there are no “eyes and ears” at this time whose assessment I would rather have.

6. If you were to decide positively, and to discuss the matter with Lodge, I would suggest you waited until after Lodge’s own talk with Lansdale, which is now scheduled for 0900 Thursday morning.⁴ In such case, however, Lodge will not be available until some time late Friday morning.

1. Source: Kennedy Library, Hilsman Papers, Country Series-Vietnam. Secret. After initialing the memorandum, Kattenburg added the following note: “Please call me in on this tonight-will be gone all day tomorrow.”
2. Reference is to the Taylor-Rostow mission to South Vietnam, of which Lansdale was a part, in October 1961. For documentation relating to the mission, see Foreign Relations, 1961–1963, vol. I, Documents 169 ff.
3. Not found.
4. No record of a Lodge-Lansdale meeting: on July 25 has been found.