24. Memorandum of Conversation, Mendenhallʼs Residence, Saigon, January 16, 19621
Saigon, January 16, 1962.
SUBJECT
- Situation in Viet-Nam
PARTICIPANTS
- Dr. Wesley Fishel, Professor, Michigan State University
- Mr. Thomas J. Corcoran, Deputy Political Advisor, CINCPAC
- Joseph A. Mendenhall, Counselor for Political Affairs
Mr. Corcoran and I had a conversation with Dr. Fishel at my house following up the conversation (already reported by memorandum2) which I had with Fishel on January 5. The main points emerging from this conversation were as follows:
- 1.
- Dr. Fishel said that he had now talked, during his two weeks here, with about 100 Vietnamese, of whom only three were supporters of the Diem Government, and two of those supported it with reservations. He said that these conversations included persons he had talked to on a 4-day trip he has just concluded to the Kontum area, Quang Tri and the 17th Parallel, and the Nha Trang area. Even outside of Saigon he said he often encountered the attitude, “I am willing to fight for my country, but why do it for the Ngo family.” He said he knew 90% of the persons talked to from his 5-year stay in Viet-Nam from 1954 to 1958, and many of them were at that time strong supporters of Diem. He said that these conversations have reaffirmed the impression he expressed during our previous talk about the grave deterioration of the political position of Diem since his last visit in 1959. Fishel said he was so depressed by this that he almost wished that he had not come to visit Viet-Nam.
- 2.
- Fishel asked whether I was aware that thousands of officers in the armed forces had been converted to Catholicism because they consider this the way to get ahead under the Diem Government. I told him I had not been aware of this, and he said he received this information from Diemʼs own Father-Confessor, who was one of the original supporters of Diem and told Fishel this in great sorrow. Fishel said that he had direct experience bearing on this point during his travels the past few days in the countryside when a major he had known previously told Fishel about his conversion to Catholicism and cynically [Page 46] indicated that this was the way to get ahead under this Government. Fishel said he had also learned that three Cabinet ministers have taken up Catholicism, including Thuan.
- 3.
- Fishel described the discouraging, depressing atmosphere among the personnel of the Presidency, most of whom he has known closely for years. He said two of them even described with tears in their eyes the deterioration in the administration of the Government. He said they indicated to him that they are continuing to hold on to prevent “them” (meaning the Ngo family and close adherents) from taking over everything, and in the hope that some kind of change will occur.
- 4.
- Fishel said that his trip through the countryside had shown him that there are some basically hopeful factors in the situation (for example, the excellent training and morale of the Rangers he saw at the Ranger Training Center in Nha Trang, and the obvious dedication of many of the military personnel whom he encountered on this trip). He stated, however, that the military and economic reforms recently undertaken by the Government will not alone produce any fundamental change in the trend against the Government. What is needed in addition is a psychological shock. When asked just what he thought was necessary he decided to remain discreetly silent (obviously because it comes very hard for him to put forth suggestions adverse to the political fortunes of Diem to whom he has been close for so long).
- Source: Washington National Records Center, RG 84, Saigon Embassy Files: FRC 68 A 5159, 350-GVN. Confidential. Drafted by Mendenhall on January 17. The meeting was held in Mendenhallʼs Residence. Another copy is in Department of State, Vietnam Working Group Files: Lot 66 D 193, 14,GVN, 1962, Political Situation, General. Distributed throughout the Embassy, to CINCPAC, and to the Department of State.↩
- Not found.↩