282. Memorandum of Conversation0

PARTICIPANTS

  • Mr. Kim, Director of the ROKCIA
  • Ambassador Chung, Korean Ambassador
  • Colonel Kim (interpreter)
  • The Secretary
  • Governor Harriman, Assistant Secretary, FE
  • Mr. Nicholas A. Natsios, Special Assistant to Ambassador Berger
  • Mr. Yager, Director, EA

The Secretary remarked that Director Kim found the Department preoccupied with a major crisis.1 The Secretary asked whether Mr. Kim saw any signs of significant activity in North Korea. Mr. Kim replied that he did not. He expressed his appreciation for the Secretary’s giving his time at a time when he is so busy.

The Secretary said he would like to speak first on the possibility of a Japanese-Korean settlement. He said that it would be helpful to both countries to resolve their problems and establish normal political, economic and military relations. The Secretary said he understood that Mr. Kim had stopped in Tokyo on his way to the U.S. and that as a result of his talks there, there is some gleam of hope that a settlement can be reached.

Mr. Kim said that he met with Foreign Minister Ohira for two hours and with Prime Minister Ikeda for 2-3/4 hours. His purpose in meeting the Japanese leaders was to create a better atmosphere for the negotiations which have been underway in Tokyo. His discussions with Ohira and Ikeda concentrated on claims, fisheries, the peace line, and Tokto Island. The status of Korean residents and art treasures was also mentioned, but, Director Kim said, these were “small matters.”

Concerning claims, Mr. Kim said that Ohira mentioned payment of $300 million over 12 years in installments of $25 million per year. Kim told Ohira that $300 million is not sufficient and that 12 years is too long. He said that he hoped for something more than $300 million plus loans which would bring the total to $600 million. Kim said that Ohira explained that even $300 million was only his own opinion and had not been discussed with Ikeda. Ohira also told Kim that annual payments to [Page 611] Korea could not exceed the $25 million paid annually under the reparations agreement with the Philippines. Ohira noted that Japan pays a total of $80 million per year for reparations. Kim said that Ohira also remarked that it was unrealistic to discuss a $600 million ceiling. He asked Kim to be more flexible about loans. Kim said that he replied that, in view of the anti-Japanese feeling among the Korean people fostered by the Rhee regime, $600 million was the least that could be accepted.

According to Kim, in concluding the talks Ohira said that the amount could be $300 million but could not be called reparations. He suggested that the payment be described as “congratulatory in recognition of Korean independence.” Kim said that he replied again that $300 million would not be sufficient. The total must be $600 million including more than $300 for reparations with the remainder being made up of loans. Concerning what the non-loan portion would be called, Kim said he told Ohira that he would not insist on the term “reparations” so long as it was clear to the Korean public that the total included reparations. Kim said that he would refer the question to his Government.

The Secretary said he hoped that both sides would carefully study the problem. We have strongly urged both Korea and Japan to make the strongest possible effort. We believe that a settlement is of the highest importance to both countries and, therefore, to the U.S. Mr. Kim indicated that he would meet again with Ohira on his way back to Korea.

The Secretary said that his experience of the past two weeks, during which he has dealt with a dangerous problem involving governments that are not friends, has made problems between friends appear simple. In his present state of mind, he would simply urge both sides: agree, agree, agree.

Mr. Kim said he would like next to report on the peace line and fisheries. In his recent Tokyo talks, he said, he asked the Japanese not to be so sensitive about the peace line and to deal with it separately from the fisheries question. He pointed out that the line is directed at the Communists, not the Japanese. He also pointed out that the ROK is in a state of war and that 200 attempted infiltrations occurred last year. On fisheries, he suggested to the Japanese that an agreement beneficial to both sides be negotiated. He intended to be flexible and asked the Japanese to be flexible also.

Concerning Tokto Island, Mr. Kim said that this question was only recently introduced into the negotiations by the Japanese. In his recent talks in Tokyo, he urged that this question be put off until after a general settlement is reached.

The Secretary asked what the island is used for. Mr. Kim replied that it is “a place for sea gull droppings.” He suggested to the Japanese that it be blown up. The Secretary commented that this solution had also occurred to him. Mr. Kim indicated that Ohira had apparently not been [Page 612] amused by this suggestion but replied that the Socialists would attack him on the issue.

Mr. Kim said that his talk with Prime Minister Ikeda revealed a somewhat different Japanese position on claims. Ikeda offered $150 million for claims. Kim said that when he told Ikeda that the Foreign Minister had spoken of $300 million, Ikeda had replied that this was a matter he would settle, not the Foreign Minister. Kim said that in response to his questions, Ikeda told him that the $150 million figure is not rigid, that loans above the $150 million claims payment could bring the total to about $600 million, and that these loans could be from government to government at very low interest rates. Kim said that Ikeda agreed with his approach to the peace line and fisheries questions.

Kim said that Ikeda confirmed Ohira’s statement that Japanese-Korean political talks could be held by the end of 1962 and that an agreement could be signed next spring and ratified by the Japanese Diet in June or July.

On Tokto Island, Kim asked Ikeda whether referral to the International Court of Justice was the only solution seen by the Japanese. Ikeda indicated that possibly the matter could be delayed until after public interest had died down.

The Secretary commented that he would gather from Kim’s report that some possibility of agreement exists. Kim replied that he would do his best to promote an early settlement when he stops in Tokyo on his way home.

The Secretary referred to the coming elections in South Korea and expressed the hope that these elections would give the Korean people a sense of real partnership in their government. Kim assured the Secretary that the Korean Government will do its best to have fair and just elections and would open the way more and more to public participation in public affairs. He questioned, however, whether it will be possible to move to a completely democratic government by next year.

The Secretary said that we will be in touch further with the Korean authorities on these questions through Ambassador Berger. He asked Mr. Kim to convey his personal greetings to Chairman Pak.

  1. Source: Department of State, Central Files, 694.95B/10-2962. Secret. Drafted by Yager and approved in S on November 7. On October 27 Harriman sent Rusk a briefing memorandum for this meeting stressing that the Secretary should encourage ROK-Japanese negotiations on outstanding issues, better Korean use of U.S. assistance, and the return to civilian government and free elections. (Ibid., 694.95B/10-2762)
  2. The Cuban missile crisis.